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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Porting stock 2v heads

Hello to all. Just joined the site, in an effort to satisfy my AED habit. There aren't many in the Mustang world using AED now, I guess mainly due to the KB explosion and the availability of centrifigals. Alot of you seem to be either running AED or very interested in them so I plan on doing alot of reading in the near future, and contributing my 2 cents if no one minds. To the point: I plan on installing cams this winter. I would like to have some work done on my current 98 heads with the hope of possibly getting into the 340 RWHP area. Is there a place that you guys are using specifically, or are you going to places like Patriot and the like and buying off the shelf?

Any opinions on what the 98 and older heads potentially have in them HP wise if massaged?

Thanks.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 03:16 PM
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First of all, Welcome!!
It's good to see another AED guy around.
Also, I love the avatar! I have that pic too.

As to your question, I don't know. I plan on doing the research sometime also but am not to that point financially. I look forward to the discussion. I do know that there's not much available cam-wise but there are some new things around the corner. I don't know anything specific, but have read some of the "chatter".

Again, welcome!

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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I am a little surprised about your comment on cams. I know that Crower and Competition Cams each have several grinds available now for the 4.6 that look very good. You can read quite abit about them on Stangnet using the search. And, Modular Ford Powerhouse in GA can custom grind. There also was a big article in MM&FF about 4 months ago where they tested the Comp choices.

Due to CR I know the PI heads are out of the question. The off the shelf options tend to be expensive, so I thought I would check into having my 98 heads worked on. I have read where a good rework of the non-pi heads will yield better gains than just a polished PI head.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 03:46 PM
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VT also makes very good modular cams.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 04:31 PM
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http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ght=Ported+NPI

Hope this helps. JL is one of the best people around here to talk to about this. Welcome to the board and Good Luck!!

Will

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2004, 06:47 PM
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Welcome.

Ill recommend Renegade Racing heads to you. Jims top notch in both customer service and workmanship. But it will cost you.

What cams are you looking into? If you are looking for something cheap that works well with this engine/ blower combo go with the PI cams. After that Ill recommend VT's if your willing to put down a little more change for upgraded springs and such.

With a good exhaust setup, set of ported heads, PI cams and the right tune you should easily exceed 340. (Assuming you have a fuel system that can handle it among other things)

Keep in mind that your not dealing with an IRS setup like the MN12 so your numbers will be somewhat higher when compared to someone here with similar mods.

Some supercharged cars blow.......Others just pick up and move.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-05-2004, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEDM8
Welcome.

Ill recommend Renegade Racing heads to you. Jims top notch in both customer service and workmanship. But it will cost you.

What cams are you looking into? If you are looking for something cheap that works well with this engine/ blower combo go with the PI cams. After that Ill recommend VT's if your willing to put down a little more change for upgraded springs and such.

With a good exhaust setup, set of ported heads, PI cams and the right tune you should easily exceed 340. (Assuming you have a fuel system that can handle it among other things)

Keep in mind that your not dealing with an IRS setup like the MN12 so your numbers will be somewhat higher when compared to someone here with similar mods.
Well, my goals are not always simply horsepower driven. I am interested in the Comp 268 cam. I think this cam might not deliver the HP/torque of the PI cams on the bottom end, but I also want a powerful sound/lope from the car as well, and the roots blower is strong on the bottom end already. Cost isn't toooo much of a factor. After all, what is an income tax refund for anyway? Another "thing" I have always had about buying for a car is to use FRPP parts when possible. So, on the exhaust side, I chose the shortie headers and the SVO/Borla side exhaust. These also are somewhat limiting, but hey, if I wanted the fastest car on the road I would probably have to win the lottery. I think the real HP limiter here is the heads, so that is why I thought about pursueing that route. I really can only do so much before the engine has to be rebuilt anyway cause I am running the 9psi pulley with stock non-forged internals. Thanks for the reference to Renegade. I will check them out.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-05-2004, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Will3799
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ght=Ported+NPI

Hope this helps. JL is one of the best people around here to talk to about this. Welcome to the board and Good Luck!!

Will

GREAT THREAD! Thanks very much for steering me to it. It answered all of my questions including what I had heard about the NPI P&P heads. I hope to prove that all of us Stang guys aren't ignorant though. I have owned a 76 Bird, a 85 Turbo Coupe and a 95 4.6 LX T-Bird so I hope you guys won't mind me hanging in here for awhile. Thanks again.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-06-2004, 06:17 AM
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Gearbanger 101 welcomes you too. Glad to see you took my advice and made the trip over from Stangnet.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-16-2004, 07:54 PM
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Hey! welcome... The 268 comp cams are working nicely for me with NPI heads, and I like them as well as the valve springs from comp...i'm still sorting things out, but will get past 300 rwhp with only 5#,and no intercooler, with unported NPI's, so they should be good for you too

Last edited by Leland Jacobson; 10-17-2004 at 12:28 PM.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2004, 10:39 AM
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prsrizdgt,

"I think the real HP limiter here is the heads, so that is why I thought about pursueing that route."

Nope. The real HP limiter is the Eaton M90S that our AED kits have.

The cylinder heads can be imporved and Fox Lake or Renegade Racing offer good CNC port jobs, but the Eaton M90S will not be able to supply the heads will the cfm they deserve. Mike Siska proved this already. He ran the REV-I AED kit with a 2.25" pulley and ported PI heads, stock PI cams and a good exhaust. The car made 370 RWHP/432 RWTQ (SAE) and ran 11.88 @ 115 mph. He was around 8 psi of boost too. I think more HP could be found in cams, but it wouldn't resolve the airflow problem.

When Mike switched to the Race Blower, he basically ditched the Eaton M90S for the
Lysholm 2300AX supercharger (whipplecharger) and a new inlet adapter with the twin bore throttle body (which is actually a restriction when tested). The car made 475 RWHP/510 RWTQ (SAE). Switching to aftermarket cams and Kooks headers got him to 500 RHWP and a 10.90 @ 125.5 mph 1/4 mile pass.

These are the facts. So will you pick up more power from ported heads and cams? Yes. However, boost pressure will drop (which is good) but in order to get the airflow back up you'll need a smaller pulley. On the Eaton, you will have passed it's efficiency range by a long shot and while spinning the blower faster will get more airflow paddled through the unit, it will be superheated.

Compressed air is hot (thermodynamics law) and boost is made when you flow air through a restriction. So spinning the Eaton faster will result in higher ACT's and less overall power output.

I hope this helps,

A-Train

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Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
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325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2004, 11:55 AM
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So use a healthy shot of nitrous for when you want that added power......

Some supercharged cars blow.......Others just pick up and move.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-17-2004, 04:53 PM
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It is possiable to get to 340 rwhp with out ported heads on a allen kit. The blower can support up to around 380 rwhp. How much have you done to your allen? Are you running the fmu? ditch the fmu. I don't have cams but I am saving to get them.

This is my personal recomendiation If you want to turn it past 6k you should rebuild the motor with a forged internals and cobra oil pump with forged billet oil pump gears. ASK EEC dock why. Here is what I would do.

1 1 inch raised spacer top from A_train

2 have magnum powers port your blower and espicaly on the inlet. I noticed on
my PI motor with the spacer the manifold pressure droped in the upper rpm which
meens a restriction on the inlet and the blower could not flow as well to keep up.

3 If you can afford it I would get renegade racing to port the heads.

4 If you don't want to go forged and won't spin the motor past 6k rpm I would get
a crower hot street stage 2 cam. It should wake it up just make sure to get a set
of comp cam valve springs. STAY AWAY MODMAX products espicaly springs.
patriot heads are having sever quality controol problems with valve seats droping
out destroying motors.

5 get a 75 mm throttlebody and gasket port match the opening behind it to 75 mm.
The allen opening is only 67 MM.

6 make you own custom air intake pipe. It will allow much more flow than the
plastic piece that allen gives you. I had to bent my fuel rails down If you use 3
inch mandrel pipe you might not have to do it. The best way to do this is to
purchace a 3 inch 90 degree mandrel tube along with a 45 degreen one also and
work with a chop saw fiting till It fits well then have it welded and jet hot coated.

7 If you have not don this do it. Get a screw in lightning air charge temp sensor and
have the manifold drilled and tapped just ablove runner 2 or in the top of the
runner. You might have to have a bung welded in. Make sure it dose not interfer
with the fuel rails. The sensor will ajust for high tempetures protecting the
engine from detonation due to high act.

8 Get a 90 MM lightning mass air meter and get a mass air meter adpter from
Need-4-speed.com.

9 you will need a set of 36# hr injectors. 30 won't be enough and 42 could give you
idle problems.

10 Have sct dyno tune your car. Make sure only "the man" tunes the car.

11 I think that this helps but you will have to send the manifold back to allen for
them to do the machine work on it. On the 5.4 trucks the intercooler brick has
a 3/4 opening in the center compared to a 5/8 for a 4.6. allen can modify your
brick and manifold. don't have them tap the manifold for the lact sensor.
They like to put it inbetween runner 2-3 in a dead air area.

12 If you have the mechanical intercooler pump
take that off and throw it as far as
as you can. Get a lightning intercooler pump from frpp. It flows 17 gpm. I
recomend that you have the bottom fitting on the resivor tank drilled and
tapped for 5/8 pipe which 3/4 heater hose fits on perefectly. This allows more
coolant to flow throught the intercooler brick improving heat removal.

13 Get a saleen or equivalant improved heat exchanger. You might be able to
source a used cobra one from somebody that has upgraded to aftermarket for
cheap. If possiable mount a couple of small fans on the heat exchanger to
improve cooling between rounds at the track.

14 I would not change gears in your stang because 3.27 in a stang are about 3.55
in a bird.

here is a picture of my dyno graph and below the picture there is a link to a video of my bird with all the mods.


right click and save as.
my allen video
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