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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Exhaust Smell

I had a small exhaust leak, which was caused by a weld that broke loose at the Air/Fuel ratio sensor bung. When they took down my exhaust, it was found that my center cat was going bad and was due for replacement. Since the car had 88,000 miles on it and is over 7 years old, I qualified for a cat change. The exhaust mechanic changed all the pipes and tubing to 2.5" mandrel bends and replaced the center cat with an H-Pipe, thus giving me a true dual exhaust.

However, I drove the car for a few block and noticed that it is running extremely lean and the cats are heating up causing a rotten egg smell. The exhaust mechanic stated that by going from the normal three cat T-Bird system to a true 2.5" dual exhaust system will lean the car out and cause me to need a new tune. My question is, if the tune was fine before the replacement and the A/F ratio was 12.1:1, would a dual exhaust have leaned me out that much? I called Jim at AED and we agreed that I should have the car towed to him for them to take a look.

Just in case anyone responds and wants to know what was added to the exhaust...

2 - 2.5" OBDII Magnaflow Cats...

2.5" H-Pipe

Dual Mandrel Bent 2.5" Piping from each cat back to the mufflers

2.5" Magnaflow Mufflers

All suggestions are appreciated and will be listened to...I had thought that the exhaust system may have a clog, but the exhaust mechanic said absolutely not...

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 02:37 PM
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Wolverine27,

I don't know, a rotten egg smell to me, means a bad cat. I doubt the "dual" exhaust leaned the A/F ratio out that much. Good luck with it.

A-Train

2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 02:49 PM
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Could be those small injectors...

Some supercharged cars blow.......Others just pick up and move.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 08:21 PM
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Cool

AEDM8,

Be nice.

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2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 09:41 PM
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Some supercharged cars blow.......Others just pick up and move.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by A-Train
Wolverine27,

I don't know, a rotten egg smell to me, means a bad cat. I doubt the "dual" exhaust leaned the A/F ratio out that much. Good luck with it.

A-Train
A-Train,

Have you ever heard of a bad cat right out of the box? I know anything is possible...

When I spoke to Jim, he said to have the car towed to AED and he will take a look at the tune. Without a chassis dyno of the A/F ratio, can the SCT software tell if the tune needs adjusting by hooking the laptop to the computer port?

Thanks for your wishes...Should have stuck with the 3 cats I guess, but I listened to this exhaust mechanic that said it would breathe better and be more efficient...Does anyone know if the H-pipe could be creating a problem?

Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 10:27 PM
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Wolverine27,

The only way to verify A/F ratio is to attached a WIDE BAND 02 sensor before the cats and measure the exhaust stream. The cats change 02 content, so you really need the measurement before any catalytic converters.

SCT software can monitor the 02 sensor voltages and pretty much tell you if you are lean or rich at WOT. A lean voltage would be .8 or lower. A rich voltage would be .9 or higher.

Remember, just because something is NEW, doesn't mean its not broken.

A-Train

2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-24-2004, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by A-Train
Wolverine27,

The only way to verify A/F ratio is to attached a WIDE BAND 02 sensor before the cats and measure the exhaust stream. The cats change 02 content, so you really need the measurement before any catalytic converters.

SCT software can monitor the 02 sensor voltages and pretty much tell you if you are lean or rich at WOT. A lean voltage would be .8 or lower. A rich voltage would be .9 or higher.

Remember, just because something is NEW, doesn't mean its not broken.

A-Train
A-Train

Thanks for the advice...As for the just because it is new does not mean that it is not broken statement is very true. I did call back the installer and he is swearing up and down it is the tune and not something he did...Considering I just brought it to hime for an exhaust leak and now I have this problem where I cannot drive the vehicle has gotten me a little upset...My feeling is that if there was a smell after he installed the new cats, he should have told me or recommended things to me instead of having me drive off the lot and then have to drive right back a few minutes later when I smelled the "rotten eggs"...

Do you think that Jim and the SCT software would be able to see if it is a tune problem?

Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2004, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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A-Train,

A little update on the problem. I had the car towed to Jim at AED and he said it was definately not running right. He checked the tune and the tune is fine. Upon investigation, he found that the #5 & #7 Coils were not delivering a spark. Thus, the car was only firing 6 cylindars and creating a "Lean" situation. I replaced the MSD coil pack and the car ran great for a few blocks and then the coil pack had the same problem. I asked Jim if we could just put on the stock coil packs then. Have not heard back if this has corrected the problem or not....(I called MSD and they suggested the same thing, to use the ford factory coil packs and see if the problem goes away. However, they would not state one way or another if they are aware of a problem with their coil packs.)

Have you heard of any problems with the MSD 4 tower coil packs? I also asked jim to check the wiring for any shorts or cut wires and he is doing that for me, as the car is no longer driveable at all....

Any suggestions?

Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2004, 07:00 PM
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Wolverine27,

The '96-'97 4.6L T-Bird uses an EDIS sytem that is incorporated into the EEC-V processor. The '94-'95 models used and DIS module that was attached to the passenger side shock tower.

I'm running MSD coil packs without any trouble and it's been about 8 months now. I don't think they did anything in terms of a hotter spark and I wouldn't recommend them now that I've tried them.

If you swap the stock coil packs on the engine and they do the same thing, then you may have failed the EDIS driver in the EEC-V, or you have a short in one of the wires. Also try another '97 T-Bird EEC-V and see if it works. I'm sure AED will figure it out.

A-Train

2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-28-2004, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Anthony...

Jim and Scott have ordered the Ford Coil Packs and are planning on replacing them next week. The problem that we have seen is that the #5 & #7 Coil are the ones that keep burning out. I have read a few prior forum posts and discovered that there are others that have experienced cracked MSD and ACCEL Coil Packs after a very short time. I hope that this solves the problem, as I would hate to change out the computer or EDIS system....

- Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 09:39 PM
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wolverine:
1. In my house , MSD is a dirty word, nuff said...
2. the changeing of your exhaust system could in fact be sufficient to leam her out excessively...I just switched from stock to dynatech metal matrix cats and experienced a gain of 8 hp initailly and 24 hp after the dynotune adjustments.
now, just recently I changed from a hodge podge of 2" and 2 1/4" pipes to a complete2 1/2" system , and the fool thing is pinging a tad too much, so Iam driving her with the octane bridge out to pull timing , and limiting throttle till I can get back to the dyno, and readjust things again on the 8th... a gas analyzer and dyno run are a lot cheaper than a new engine, go figure.... g'Luck
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-01-2004, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Leland....

Jim at AED did another flash file tune where it would give me a richer tune and suggests that I pull the octane plug when I have the Blown 3 tune in place. Other than that, the motorsport coil packs seemed to solve to problem. I am gonna keep the MSD DIS-4 in place, just because it amplifies my ignition at start up and I like that extra kick. If you suggest removal, please explain why and what you think the DIS-4 could be doing...

P.S. MSD has become a dirty word in this house too, as I contacted them and told them of the cracking coil packs and there customer service tech stated "We are unaware of any problems. Send them back to us so we can see them, repair them or replace them." Upon looking through old forums, I noticed other people complaining about the Accel and MSD coil packs and getting the same responses from the company...

- Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-01-2004, 01:53 PM
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the DIS-4 relies on those two tach amplifiers, which are extremely prone to intermittant breakdown at abour the 1 yr warranty point(20.000miles). I bought so many of them I almost went nutz.... also, the Box caught on fire and darned near got my F'glass custom hood... Luckily hadda pair of dikes to cut the hot wire, and a fire ext. handy.... sure makes for an intertesting day tho' wiping soot off the bottom of the hood... the final straw was on a cross country trip from Fl. to Minn when I ended up bypassing the thing in the middle of the nite on the side of the road with a flashlite in my teeth and Icy rain running down my butt crack... It was not a pretty picture... since then, I bought an Ign. solutions plasma booster, and that doesnt seem to do much, but hasnt screwed up my life and tranquility like the DIS - 4 did ...
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-02-2004, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Well, problem has been solved. A-Train was 100% correct as usual. The problem was the MSD coil packs burning up and cracking, which was caused by the MSD box amplifying the signal from a bad EDIS Driver. Thus, I had to buy a new PCM and re-flash a new PCM. I have a little power loss from the MSD removal, but I will live with it, since I gained some power by having a dual exhaust system, so it was a trade off. The computer is still in its learning curve, I was getting a few misfires just after the install, but they only lasted a few seconds and then the computer corrected it. I put in some new gas and injector cleaner and it seems to be okay now. I gather that I had some deposits in the #5 & #7 Chamber since there was no firing for a while, so I am breaking up the garbage.

A-train...Thanks again...

Also, Leland, thanks for the advice on the MSD crap. AED disconnected all of it and I am sending it back to MSD, since it is 5 months old and has a 1 year warranty. The stuff is crap.

-Steve

AED 9 PSI Supercharger, .30 over Forged Block with Manley H-Beam Rods & Pistons, Innovative West 10% Overdrive Crank Pulley, Thump RRR Tensioner Pulley, Cobra Crankshaft, BPE Racing Stage 2 Ported & Polished Heads, Crower Direct Replacement Cams, 70MM Throttle Body, MAC Cold Air Intake, 80 MM L-MAF, 38Lbs Injectors, JBA Ceramic Coated Headers, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, Kevlar Clutch & Kolene Reaction Plate Transmission, True 2.5" Dual Magnaflow Exhaust (Cats & Mufflers), Griffin 1 1/4" Radiator, B&M Racing Trans Cooler, Hughes 2750 Stall Torque Converter, 3.73:1 Gears with Traction Lock Differential, Trans-Go Kit, Superchips Custom Tune for Supercharger, 17" SVT Wheels, Kenny Brown Suspension Enhancers & Eibrach Lowering Kit.
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