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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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What do you guys think?

I have a 94 thunderbird LX V8 and am looking to supercharge. The only thing is that the car has 146k on the engine and am worried its going to blow up. YOu guys think I should replace the ngine first or is there some way I can beef up the existing engine so that it can take the stress of a supercharger?
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 07:41 PM
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A supercharger is a gamble on any stock motor. I have 85,000 blown miles on a stock explorer motor but I know of others who have grenaded in just a couple thousand miles.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 07:56 PM
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well hows it run for starters? idle? any smoke from the exhaust? has it been kept up and maintained? does it use up oil? any knocking or other sounds from the motor? hows the tranny doing? shifting? any slipping? if it is all good keep the boost low and get it tuned good and have fun boosting it

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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alright because all those things are fine so i guess a new venture into the unknown of putting in a supercharger.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 08:24 PM
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what blower are you planning on?

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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I honestly have no idea just basically wishing and hoping right now. I want Allen though.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 05:42 PM
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if you go 6psi, you would be fine with an engine, say with 30,000miles, but with 150 it is a gamble. It will probably be ok, if it was taken care of correctly, but just dont be surprised if it blows up.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 10:38 AM
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vortech

what about putting a vortech onto a dohc motor? are those built better as a stock motor? and also is vortech the best way to go?

man do i love this video.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...7e01288702.htm
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 09:20 AM
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No stock modular except for the new SC'd Cobra have any better internals. All the same powdered rods and weak pistons

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 05:09 PM
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If the engine is in good otherwise working and running condition, don't even worry about the mileage. Go with the Allen kit like you originally intended, run it with the 3" pulley and don't look back. There are plenty of high mileage blown Supercoupes running the streets without a single issue, so I don't see why it would prove any different with the 4.6L SOHC, as long as you keep power levels within reason.

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-07-2007, 01:47 PM
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hey guys i dont wanna start another thread so i thought i'd ask here.

in maybe 6 months or so once i have more than enough funds im hopeing to get a vortech no idea on which one just pretty certain i want to get a centrifugal. im just looking to see how much boost you guys are running (specifically anyone with an explorer engine). i just put an explorer in my car in january and probably have about 24,000 miles on it now and im wondering what would be safe.Its still my DD for now but with everything i have planned it just wont work very well as a DD when im done,so eventually it'll be just a weekend car.

i just dont wanna kiss my pretty new motor goodbye prematurly

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 06:20 AM
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does allen sell their kit without the supercharger, cos i've already got a damned m90

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 10:48 AM
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Unless you've got a Gen III M90 ('94-'95 Supercoupe) and the front snout is machined for the alternator suport bracket, you'll need to stick with their unit that comes with the kit. As for whether or not they'll separate the kit from the blower....you'll have to ask Scott for yourself.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 11:40 AM
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Post Always funny to read these type of posts...

Ok, the truth is the 4.6L engine is notorious for having a very strong bottom end with 4-bolt main caps and a deep skirt. WINDSOR built 4.6L engine have
4-bolt main caps with dowel pins as well. Stout stuff for any engine.

The top side of the engine is bolted together using steel laminated head gaskets. The weak part is the piston design and powder metal connecting rods. I don't care what anybody tells you they have done with their car. I don't care what you have read in magazines.

The hypereutectic pistons have given out on NATURALLY ASPIRATED 4.6L engines. Cracked ring lands, broken rings lands, and/or holes in the oil feed holes are very common. The connecting rods are usually spun well past their engineered tolerances and with boost pressure present they have been known to shear the bolts out of the caps and send the rods through the block. Or they just snap at the mid point and create a nice mess.

To supercharge any 1991-2004 4.6L 2V SOHC engine is a gamble. High or low mileage...does not matter.

I had 20k on my 4.6L when the 4.6L piston gave out and broke a ring land. There was only a small warning sign that I had before it let go. Excessive blow bye was seeping through the intake manifold. It just laid over and stopped pulling on the high end. The car was tuned by Jerry W. so I don't think you can argue it was a bad tune.

If you have the very best dyno tune...things can still go wrong. Bad gas could easily cause the engine to knock. Imagine a fuel pump going out or something as simple as a bad tune letting more spark timing advance when it should be pulling it back.

Even the best scenarios cannot be controlled. This is why Ford used forged pistons, forged connecting rods and a forged steel crank for the 2003-2004 Cobra. They didn't want you coming back looking like a 2V engine.

So the bottom line here is...but a blower on the 4.6L and you are on borrowed time. How long? Depends...really it does.

My new 2000 4.6L engine has lasted 6 years with 10-psi of boost. It is a completely stock GT engine. Will it last forever? No.

The Ghost,

Every couple of months somebody asks the same question you do. Clearly you have not done any homework on your own. Frugal, perhaps, but most likely just cheap. The M90 that ALLEN uses on the REV-I kit is actually a GEN-III M90 with an "S"-port. Hence the name M90S.

Any blower you pick up from a used SC or XR-7 is going to be at the best just a plain GEN-III M90. Most of them will be GEN-II's. The snout is a different length on the ALLEN kit and also machined to accept the clamp for the ALLEN kit. Also, you are getting a brand new M90S, not a used salvage yard unit that you might have to rebuild.

The new ALLEN kits (REV-II only) use the GEN-V Eaton M90 which is the best of the best. What you should be doing is figuring out how to fit the GEN-V M90 to the REV-I kit. That would be something you would be commended for.

Hmmm...try something new...something different.

A-Train

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 04:38 PM
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i added my blower at 100k and ranit till 125k with 6 psi starting out then went to 8 psi the car ran 12.17, but the motor has used oil before i installed the blower, the motor is still going strong, but ive decided to give up and install and explorer motor, and yes the tune is one thing it has to right, but as Atrain said its a risk, another thing is keeping the ol change which i do ever 2-3000 mile no more than 3 but with that mileage id fine a lower mileage motor

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
The Ghost,

Every couple of months somebody asks the same question you do. Clearly you have not done any homework on your own. Frugal, perhaps, but most likely just cheap. The M90 that ALLEN uses on the REV-I kit is actually a GEN-III M90 with an "S"-port. Hence the name M90S.....

A-Train
I'm very well aware of what the M90S is, I came from owning a supercoupe and did quite a bit of homework on it. I have an M90 blower that I can *have* made into a hybrid S-port / MPIII style that I have no other use for.
Yes it is frugal, but I've got no idea wtf else to do with that M90 that's consuming valuable space in my garage. I've read the whole Allen article, read the FAQ, read their website and wondered if I could get away with using the adaptors and simply had the M90 I already have matched to the intake, nor did I see any information on the allen website for specific components of the kit.
It is a Gen II blower that is in very good shape pulled from a 35th anny SC. The SC it came from had low miles and had been retired to the junkyard due to a blown headgasket.

-ghost

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 01:00 AM
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I would liek to confirm that the pistons are the #1 issue with supercharging these engines..Even a newer PI engine...

#1 mod for you...Nice lower miel motor..An dthen if you want to SC it....Get the bottom end done...At least new pistons...Maybe rods depending..Crank and block are fine

Going for broke!!!!
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 09:01 PM
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Someone here said the stock crank in our cars can handle 400-500 Hp at the crank...???

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-10-2007, 05:39 AM
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Someone here said the stock crank in our cars can handle 400-500 Hp at the crank...???
Easily.....It's RPM that kills the stock crank, not horsepower.

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-10-2007, 06:45 PM
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The shock load from dumping the clutch from a high rpm with a strong engine is the number one killer of cast cranks.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-12-2007, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
The new ALLEN kits (REV-II only) use the GEN-V Eaton M90 which is the best of the best. What you should be doing is figuring out how to fit the GEN-V M90 to the REV-I kit. That would be something you would be commended for.
Curious Tony....how do you think Allens new Gen V Eaton stacks up agains the Magnum Powers MPIII blower? You think one holds a clear power advantage over the other? I'm seriously considering one of these two next season to save me from having to do a whole pile of custom work to make a twin screw fit the bill?!?

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-13-2007, 11:37 AM
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There are plenty of high mileage blown Supercoupes running the streets without a single issue, so I don't see why it would prove any different with the 4.6L SOHC, as long as you keep power levels within reason.

I know there may not be much difference...but the SC does at least use better rods and crank IIRC.

Also I don't think I'd go with a centrifugal blower on your stock engine. The 94/5 intake isn't known to flow very well.

~Jeff

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-13-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Curious Tony....how do you think Allens new Gen V Eaton stacks up agains the Magnum Powers MPIII blower? You think one holds a clear power advantage over the other? I'm seriously considering one of these two next season to save me from having to do a whole pile of custom work to make a twin screw fit the bill?!?
I couldn't tell you. I think Scott could answer that question though. I have no data on either blower. All I remember is what Scott told me when he was prototyping the case design. 15 degree drop in ACT's at the same boost levels and the port was already in the case. So the flow has to be higher than a GEN-III M90S.

How it compares to Magnum powers MPIII, I couldn't say.

A-Train

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 11:45 AM
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Thumbs up Eaton's GEN-VI blower ready!!!!

Eaton is back on top again with the GEN-VI blowers.

Twin Vortices System
The TVS is Eaton’s newest Roots Supercharger that is capable of running with a high thermal efficiency (up to 76%) across a very wide operating range.

This is a fancy name for twin screw.

Eaton’s new Twin Vortices Series (TVS) is a roots-type supercharger for a variety of engine applications that delivers more power and better fuel economy in a smaller package, for uncompromising, high-performance driving.

The TVS supercharger’s patented design features four-lobe rotors and high-flow inlet and outlet ports that greatly enhance thermal efficiency, deliver higher volumetric capacity, and enable higher operating speeds. The TVS supercharger is capable of running with a high thermal efficiency (up to 76 percent) across a very wide operating range.

The improvements incorporated into the TVS design allow for the use of a smaller supercharger, reducing the package size and weight of the system. The sizes range from 350cc to 2300cc per revolution, and cover engines from 0.6 liter up to large displacement V-engines. All TVS superchargers have a 2.4 pressure ratio capability and a thermal efficiency that exceeds 70 percent, which enables more compact packaging and greater output.

The twin four-lobe rotors feature 160-degree twists. The higher helix angle of the rotors coupled with a redesigned inlet and outlet ports, improves the TVS’s air-handling characteristics without increasing the overall size of the unit. The TVS improved noise and vibration characteristics eliminate additional noise-reduction treatments, complexity and system cost.

The TVS sets a new standard of boosting device performance and reaffirms Eaton’s leadership in the performance automotive market!

The TVS product family will consist of the following models:
R350
R410
R530
R660
R900
R1050
R1320
R1650
R1900
R2300

Now we are talking power!



http://www.eatonperformance.com/supe...ideo-clip.html

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2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 12:30 PM
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Yes, but are they dimensionally the same as our GEN III M90's? If not, they're gonna be a PITA to install, just like any other blower that isn't.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 12:34 PM
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Mod Motor Cat,

C'mon that would be to easy!

I do not have any prints to do side by side comparisons, but this is a good step forward for Eaton. I knew they were working on a twin screw for a couple years now, I believe Jerry mentioned it a long time ago. Nothing every came of it.

The package won't be a direct fit, but if you recall...the Whipple is not a direct fit either.

A-Train

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2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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wait so you can put an m90 supercharger on my car? I went to that Eaton site and it said up to 5.0 strange i thought they were only for the 3.8s. What kind of other parts do i need for converting i over ya figure?

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 06:45 PM
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Just curious, how do these new Eaton models stack up against KB's and the other current top makers? By back on top, I assume you mean these are the real deal. Not asking for myself, just wondering.

~Jeff

*signed off
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 11:23 PM
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Mod Motor Cat,

C'mon that would be to easy!

I do not have any prints to do side by side comparisons, but this is a good step forward for Eaton. I knew they were working on a twin screw for a couple years now, I believe Jerry mentioned it a long time ago. Nothing every came of it.

The package won't be a direct fit, but if you recall...the Whipple is not a direct fit either.

A-Train
Wonder how many different displacements there will be? I'd like to see something right around 1.7 (103cid) to 2.0L (120cid) like the old Opcon Twin Screws.

Something in that size would flow a lot more air than the M90S, yet would be a good match for a set of dime a dozen, 42lb/hr injectors and Lightning MAF match up. Not to mention we might even still be able to get away with re-using our original bypass valves and sticking with a 75mm round throttle body. As it sits our only option now is the 2300AX, which as we all know would requires a dual bore throttle body, a set of expensive 60lb/hr Siemens injectors and an SCT MAF meter to even keep up with it's airflow.

A happy medium between the Eaton M90S and 2300 would be a welcome addition to the kit IMO.

~Brian~


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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 11:34 PM
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wait so you can put an m90 supercharger on my car? I went to that Eaton site and it said up to 5.0 strange i thought they were only for the 3.8s. What kind of other parts do i need for converting i over ya figure?
http://www.allen-superchargers.com/

Jim

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