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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Supercharger Set up.

Well i am in the market for a supercharger system. I am starting to finish up my suspension modifcations, threw Saleen Wheels on it, and put true dual exhaust. Therefore, it appears that i am ready to start doing actual engine modifications. What i was thinking about getting was a Vortec supercharger. I have seen the AED blowers as well as the Vortec Blowers and i do like the look of the Vortec much better. However, which year mustang kit is the best for the use on my car? I have researched a bit and found that a custom intake tube is required, and possibly cutting of certain parts of the engine bay to fit the air filter? Is this all the modifications that are necessary? I have also seen the Vortec inline fuel pump, is this safe to use or is it better to install say an actual warlboro 255lb pump?

Now for driveability questions. Is the Vortec supercharger noisy/whiny at idle/WOT/cruise/etc? Also is it safe to use on a stock engine? THanks for any help.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 06:14 PM
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vortec is a centifugal which wont start really creating its boost until higher revs and the AED is a roots blower that will give you gobs of torque right off of throttle just dont boost it more than 6 psi on the stock bottom end and get it tuned and fueled correctly

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 06:41 PM
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IIRC, the centrifugal SC's are a bit louder that the modern roots. The Allen only approaches loud at higher rpms. But it's not real loud. A lot like a Super Coupe.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Oh okay. Well the loudness i can live with. I actually prefer the whiny loudness of the centrifugals. My friends mustang Gt with a procharger is actually very loud. More of a whistle and not a whine. Does anyone know what year mustang kit fits best? And what exact modifications i need to do to the car to get it done? Thanks again for the help.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sCrEaMiN BiRd View Post
I have seen the AED blowers as well as the Vortec Blowers and i do like the look of the Vortec much better.

The looks of the blower might not be the best thing to make your decision off of.

-Joel

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:14 PM
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Vortech's SQ(Q for quiet) is posed to run almost silent at idle.




"Booyah". Stu Scott.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GODSPEED View Post
The looks of the blower might not be the best thing to make your decision off of.

-Joel
Also price and ease of installation. Plus Vortec kits are usually fairly plentiful meaning that many people have them, so i can ask questions if i run into a problem, etc. No one knows which year mustang is best still? Thanks alot for the help everyone.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:34 PM
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96-98 Vortech blower will work for you.




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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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96-98 Mustang GT correct? It doesnt look all that hard to install from the pictures i have seen. However i did see someone post that it was hard to tap the oil pan because there isnt much room to swing a hammer. Thanks for the help again. Anyone have some dyno or 1/4 mile numbers?
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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There are 2 different kits. There is a kit for 96-97 GT and a kit for 98 GT. Does anyone know the difference?
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 10:59 PM
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yeah, the 98 got some goofy fuel system, i forgot about that. 96-97 it is.




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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Okay gotcha.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-30-2007, 11:11 PM
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are you looking for low end grunt or high rev power. Alot of these centrifugals dont really start making good boost until 3000 or so rpms? might want to think about what you need not what looks best. A supercharger isnt just a supercharger there are different types of blowers for different apps. The vortec is good for building big power for running down the strip. If you want a fun car on the street get a eaton like the AED or a twin screw like Kenne Belle. Why do you think the 03-04 cobras are running an eaton from factory? That and the lightning?

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 10:37 AM
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If the bottom end were built to handle the boost, then the vortech could be pullied to come on a lot harder down low. Match that to a set of 3.73-4.10 gears and a good converter (something stalling in the 3,400-3,600RPM range) and you'd be surprised just how "hard" a centrifugal can come on down low.

If I could do it again, I would have gone with a Vortech. In stock non-intercooled trim, they may not perform as well as the Allen on a heavy car, but when you add the "Power Cooler" or water methanol injection into the mix and start playing around with pulley sizes, all bets are off. If you really want to make power for the least amount of money, the Vortech S-Trim will support a lot more than the M90S. I've seen an S-Trim support nearly 650RWHP with a built 4.6L and all the amenities. The most I've seen out of an M90S as of yet is about 370RWHP

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not too much concerned about extreme low end power. I'm not trying to squeeze every tenth of a second through the quarter out of this car. I just want the power increase. Also i have heard that centrifugals are much easier to launch at the track anyways because of the way the power rolls on smoothly as opposed to a sudden "hit" of power that a roots or twin screw would give.

Is there any way that i could get a vortec kit without the "SQ" feature, as i feel that if i'm going to supercharge a car it mine as well whistle and whine, etc. As Obucina said SQ stands for quiet, is there any way to use a different blower that is a bit louder? Thank you all for the help.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 12:32 PM
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if you get the blower package, you have the option of getting the S-Trim V2 compressor or the S-Trim V2-SQ. Check ebay, alot of companies on ebay sell a "tuner" kit, so you can get the injectors you want and the MAF you want and not get the ****ty FMU and some other crap. Note though, you want the C5 Corvette inlet, it is narrow and provides enough clearance for the Tbird.




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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 01:14 PM
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I'm not 100% sure on this, but the last rumor circulating the Mustang sites was that Vortech was no longer producing the standard S-Trim? Regardless, the SQ isn't completely silent either. It'll still produce the satisfying "whistle" at idle that we all know and love. Not to mention its rated slightly more efficient than the standard S-Trim.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 03:09 PM
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i believe my brother had the SQ on his 00 stang GT. it does whine yes, but also sounds like a loose bearing in a pully or something as well......dont get me wrong u can deff hear the SQ, its not a quiet as u may think... and he had 315 Nittos in the back drag/radials and without the SC he couldn't break the tires loose, with the SC NO problem. with about 6-8psi he gained 100hp right off the bat 330hp to the wheels and 3-something torque......he was spinning the tires on the dyno when he got it done WITH the 315's on....u could smell it.

i would go vortech just cuz seems like alot of ppl have them and could get parts/info easier...

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 03:59 PM
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I like the idea of having a high stall TC with the Vortech...you can't have that with a Allen

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Obucina View Post
if you get the blower package, you have the option of getting the S-Trim V2 compressor or the S-Trim V2-SQ. Check ebay, alot of companies on ebay sell a "tuner" kit, so you can get the injectors you want and the MAF you want and not get the ****ty FMU and some other crap. Note though, you want the C5 Corvette inlet, it is narrow and provides enough clearance for the Tbird.
Got it. What does FMU mean? Fuel management unit? If that is what it means why is it bad? And how can i get around using the FMU. Also what do you mean by C5 corvette inlet? INtake tube inlet? Thanks for the help.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 06:04 PM
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FMU is ghey, just dont use one. I mean by the Vette inlet, as in the inlet section that connects to the front of the compressor, its low profile.




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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 07:55 PM
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Thumbs up Opened a can of worms...

sCrEaMiN BiRd,

The bottom line is...the FASTEST MN12 on this site run an ALLEN blower. 10's @ 130 mph from Allen's intake set-up coupled with a whipplecharger.

Most of the ALLEN cars run low 13's to mid 12's with the Eaton M90S. Expect 275-330 RWHP with most 6-9 psi kits.

If you push it to the max you can make 370 RWHP, then you might want to consider a different blower.

Vortech's are great superchargers and they make lots of power, they just don't do it off idle. In my opinion a 4,000 lb. T-Bird needs all the grunt down low where it can use it.

Here is my 1995 ALLEN T-Bird VIDEO...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6cnmqNcV8

That is what you'll hear...I love that sound.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 07:58 PM
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i was looking at vids and found this.....my brothers 00 GT i said earlier sounded like this....(warning it is a cmaro with a procharger) but im going on sound here

http://videos.streetfire.net/toprate...bdfb121c15.htm

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 08:36 PM
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turbos just do the job so much better hehe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAbd_HR2K0g

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2007, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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sCrEaMiN BiRd,

The bottom line is...the FASTEST MN12 on this site run an ALLEN blower. 10's @ 130 mph from Allen's intake set-up coupled with a whipplecharger.

Most of the ALLEN cars run low 13's to mid 12's with the Eaton M90S. Expect 275-330 RWHP with most 6-9 psi kits.

If you push it to the max you can make 370 RWHP, then you might want to consider a different blower.

Vortech's are great superchargers and they make lots of power, they just don't do it off idle. In my opinion a 4,000 lb. T-Bird needs all the grunt down low where it can use it.

Here is my 1995 ALLEN T-Bird VIDEO...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6cnmqNcV8

That is what you'll hear...I love that sound.

A-Train
Wow those are really good numbers. i wasn't expecting low 13's with this kind of setup and low boost. In your opinion is the Allen blower harder to install than the vortec? And which is more stressful on the engine (same PSI of course)?
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 07:35 AM
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I have a Vortech, it is good because it is easier to install then a roots blower. However on the street since the power is developing much higher on the centrifugals (I start to make boost at 4k rpms with 8psi max) you don't really get the feeling of being thrown back into your seat like you get with a roots style blower. Granted the high stall tq converter helps but I would still take a roots any day for a daily driver.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Wow 4k that's pretty late. What's your car run at the track though? Thanks
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 08:05 PM
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Post I agree with Carlover007...

sCrEaMiN BiRd,

Typical ALLEN installs can peak 30 hours, mostly on the '94-'95 cars which require more attention and part movements and well as part upgrades. Not hard to do, just lots of it. I should know, I wrote the '94-'95 install manual.

Vortech installs are easier ranging between 4-8 hours depending on your mechanical skills.

As Carlover007 said, you'll get more low rpm power with an ALLEN kit. This makes for a GREAT daily driver. Plus you won't need a high stall converter to get the car moving. I ran 12.8's @ 109 mph with a production Mark VIII/GT 11.25" Torque converter.

Here is a great comparison of Kris Danner's older set-up and my set-up. It really shows you the difference between the ALLEN and a Vortech supercharged T-Bird.

KDanner's set-up consisted of a 1996 T-Bird with a stock 4.6L ROMEO engine block and PI heads. His exhaust was more free flowing than mine. The static compression ratio on his engine was around 10.4:1. His supercharger was a Vortech without an intercooler.

My engine was a stone stock 2000 Mustang GT engine. PI heads as well, but 9.0:1compression ratio. Stock factory airbox, stock factory exhaust manifolds, two cats, Borla cat-back exhaust, etc.

Jerry W. (SCT) tuned my car and Kris tuned his own. Kris is very knowledgeable and can tune a car very well.

Now the numbers...you be the judge:

KDANNER.......................................A-TRAIN
1996 VORTECH..............................1995 ALLEN
T-BIRD............................................T-BIRD

RPM..........RWHP......RWTQ.........RPM........... .RWHP.......RWTQ
2000.........90...........242..........2000....... ......140.8......355.5
2100........100..........252..........2100........ ......142.5.......356.7
2200.........105..........252..........2200....... ......149........355.7
2300.........110..........260..........2300....... ......156.7.......357.8
2400.........117..........265..........2400....... .......164.5........360
2500.........125..........265..........2500....... .......171.5........360.4
2600.........135..........263...........2600...... .......181..........356.6
2700.........140...........275..........2700...... ......189.1.........367.9
2800.........150............276..........2800..... .......197..........369.5
2900.........160............288.........2900...... ........204.6.........370.6
3000.........165............285...........3000.... .......213.7.........374.1
3100.........170............290...........3100.... .......223.2........378.1
3200.........170............285............3200... .......230.8.......378.9
3300.........180............284............3300... .......236.9.......377.1
3400..........190............290...........3400... ........244.3.......377.4
3500..........200............300............3500.. ........250.7.......376.2
3600............210...........312...........3600.. ........258.3.......376.8
3700............230............322..........3700.. ........265.7........377.1
3800.............240............333.........3800.. .........272.6........376.8
3900.............250...........340...........3900. .........278.6........375.1
4000.............260............338..........4000. ..........283.4........372.1
4100.............265.............333..........4100 ..........288.3.........369.4
4200..............275............340..........4200 .........293.8........367.4
4300..............285............350.........4300. ..........298.9..........365.1
4400...............290............350.........4400 ..........302.4...........361
4500..............300.............352.........4500 ..........304.5........355.4
4600...............310............353........4600. .............308.1........351.8
4700...............320............350........4700. ............311.6..........348.2
4800..............320.............348........4800. .............314.4...........344
4900..............322.............342........4900. .............314.9.........337.5
5000..............320.............341........5000. ...........315.5.........331.4
5100..............322.............340.........5100 ............321.5..........331.1
5200..............330.............338.........5200 .............321.1..........324.3
5300..............340..............330.........530 0.............320............317.1
5400..............345..............328.........540 0............320.2.........311.4
5500..............348................325........55 00............324.2.........309.6
5600..............350...............323.........56 00...........322.8..........302.8
5700...............360...............320.........5 700............n/a............n/a
5800...............365...............318.........5 800.............n/a............n/a
5900...............360................320......... 5900............n/a............n/a
6000...............355................308......... 6000.............n/a............n/a
MAX...............368.5..............353.7........ MAX.............325.1..........379.5

I don't know about you guys but I like the numbers on the right for a daily driver with strip duty.

A-Train

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Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Whoa that Allen puts out some really good numbers. That's really empressive. However, is the Allen harder on the engine because the power comes in so early? As opposed to the Vortec which seems to "roll" the power on more gradually? Thanks for the numbers guys!
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 09:26 PM
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Location: Somewhere in NJ
Age: 42
Posts: 1,277
Thumbs up Well I guess it's true...

The fact is, the ALLEN blower specifically has a snout that does theoretically yank on the crankshaft of the 4.6L. Never seen any problems with the stock crankshaft even with Mike Siska's 500 RWHP monster.

As for the power coming on fast...YES it does. Can it hurt the engine? Yeap.

Has anybody had 4.6L engine failures with an ALLEN blower? YEAP...I for one.

Has anybody had 4.6L engine failures with a Vortech blower? YEAP...Kdanner for one.

It's a risk...like anything else.

What is the difference between instant power with knock and a "rolling into" power with knock? Nada.

A good safe dyno tune with mild boost should give you lots of trouble free miles. There is always a risk with the stock 4.6L internals.

Either way...both a Vortech or ALLEN will give you lots of smiles.

A-Train

A-Train

2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
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