Lowering Springs - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
5th Gear Poster
 
danalba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: bay city michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 433
Lowering Springs

can you use after market lowering springs with stock shocks? if so how difficult of a task is it install the lowering springs??

MAC CAI/02 STANG MAF/SCT CHIP TUNED BY LONNIE
EIBACH 1.5 LOWERING SPRINGS- BILSTEIN GAS SHOCKS
90 SUPERCOUPE SIDE SKIRTS/REAR
18x9-FRONT: 245 REAR: 275
PI intake/PI cams
355 trac lok
new tune for swapped parts (93 oct)

no longer the owner.... but its still my child its just released into the world....
danalba is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:46 AM
4th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 238
IMHO - you might want to stop and reconsider. The spring rate of lowering spring is much higher that that of stock springs. They are stiffer. So yes, you can use stock shocks. But the ride qualities go away with the stock springs. If it were me, I would cut a coil from each corner and then see if I needed a stiffer shock to prevent bottoming. I have a 94 with Eibachs and you can drive over a dime and tell if it is heads or tails. I dont think, unless it was for a racing setup of some kind, that I would ever put lowering springs in any T-Bird. Cutting a coil is cheaper and cheaper to reverse if you need to.

BYE2YOU
growing old is inevitable
growing up is optional
94 SC
05 PT Cruiser GT Turbo Convert
Ken Horner is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 10:35 AM
PostSlut
 
_95badbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Spring Texas
Age: 39
Posts: 13,597
I used to have eibachs with car quest shocks(still run the rears), and the ride was great.

Nick......................I'm back!!!
May you fly low and fast
rest in peace JL
_95badbird is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
5th Gear Poster
 
danalba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: bay city michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 433
alright well I wouldn't know how to cut the stock springs. and second go hard would it be to take the springs off in general to do either. is the process hard/time consuming? cananyone give it to me in a nutshell??

MAC CAI/02 STANG MAF/SCT CHIP TUNED BY LONNIE
EIBACH 1.5 LOWERING SPRINGS- BILSTEIN GAS SHOCKS
90 SUPERCOUPE SIDE SKIRTS/REAR
18x9-FRONT: 245 REAR: 275
PI intake/PI cams
355 trac lok
new tune for swapped parts (93 oct)

no longer the owner.... but its still my child its just released into the world....
danalba is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 10:14 AM
3rd Gear Poster
 
96sport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 130
Cheap but not right

I'm not knocking those that have cut their springs and like the ride,
but I tried it and didn't like it with 1 coil cut off. With stock or Tokico shocks there was to much of a pogo stick effect to me. Buy a set of custom springs and enjoy the drive. JMHO.

Straightaways are for fast cars
Turns are for fast drivers
96sport is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Clueless Poster
 
v8_superbirdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 2,458
Send a message via AIM to v8_superbirdy Send a message via Yahoo to v8_superbirdy
cutting springs isn't the most right way to do it. you can do it but it's not going to do your car anygood because the spring rate is lowered and so if you hit a bump it's going to "bog" down even more and your more likely to scrape with those soft springs.

eibachs are a much better way of going about things they help improve handling as well as ride comfort. unlike cutting springs which is just aesthetically pleasing and if anything ruins springs. not trying to knock people that have cut their springs and like it. it's your car do what you want.

my other ride is an ambulance!
1997 V8 sport - first car - sold 6/7/10
2006 silver mustang gt premiumcustom made grill, frpp shorty headers, pypes cat back exhaust, hurst billet pro shifter,
v8_superbirdy is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 11:12 PM
PostWhore
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Age: 65
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8_superbirdy View Post
cutting springs isn't the most right way to do it. you can do it but it's not going to do your car anygood because the spring rate is lowered and so if you hit a bump it's going to "bog" down even more and your more likely to scrape with those soft springs.

eibachs are a much better way of going about things they help improve handling as well as ride comfort. unlike cutting springs which is just aesthetically pleasing and if anything ruins springs. not trying to knock people that have cut their springs and like it. it's your car do what you want.
Not true. A coil spring is a torsion bar wound in a coil. It twists as it compresses. Cutting it increases the spring rate, makes it stiffer while shorter.

Cutting springs doesn't change the fact that each coil still supports the car. It does result in fewer coils absorbing the travel when hitting bumps and each coil remains just as stiff as before, but because there are fewer, the spring effectively is stiffened in spring rate.

Imagine a spring with 10 full coils, and say it has a spring rate of 300 pounds per inch. That means each individual coil has a rate of 300 pounds per 0.10 inch.
After you cut a coil, it still takes 300 pounds to compress each coil 0.10 inch, only now the spring's rate is 300 pounds per 0.90 inch, or something nearer to 330 pounds per whole inch overall. To reach that 1 inch compression overall though, each individual coil now must compress 0.111 of an inch because there are only 9 of them.

That's a simplistic explanation. There is a formula for it somewhere.

A fine pair ... ... and whatever you do, Have a Safe Trip!

Last edited by CrystalPistol; 08-07-2009 at 10:44 PM.
CrystalPistol is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
5th Gear Poster
 
danalba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: bay city michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 433
haha thanks guys. how would you go about cutting springs, and also how hard is it to remove them and put them back on??

MAC CAI/02 STANG MAF/SCT CHIP TUNED BY LONNIE
EIBACH 1.5 LOWERING SPRINGS- BILSTEIN GAS SHOCKS
90 SUPERCOUPE SIDE SKIRTS/REAR
18x9-FRONT: 245 REAR: 275
PI intake/PI cams
355 trac lok
new tune for swapped parts (93 oct)

no longer the owner.... but its still my child its just released into the world....
danalba is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 12:05 AM
Clueless Poster
 
v8_superbirdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 2,458
Send a message via AIM to v8_superbirdy Send a message via Yahoo to v8_superbirdy
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalPistol View Post
Not true. A coil spring is a torsion bar wound in a coil. It twists as it compresses. Cutting it increases the spring rate, makes it stiffer while shorter.

Cutting springs doesn't change the fact that each coil still supports the car. It does result in fewer coils absorbing the travel when hitting bumps and each coil remains as still as before, but because there are fewer, the spring effectively is stiffened in spring rate.

Imagine a spring with 10 full coils, and say it has a spring rate of 300 pounds per inch. That means each individual coil has a rate of 300 pounds per 0.10 inch.
After you cut a coil, it still takes 300 pounds to compress each coil 0.10 inch, only now the spring's rate is 300 pounds per 0.90 inch, or something nearer to 330 pounds per whole inch overall. To reach that 1 inch compression overall though, each individual coil now must compress 0.111 of an inch because there are only 9 of them.

That's a simplistic explanation. There is a formula for it somewhere.
oh, my auto shop teacher told us that. he was an alcoholic though. reason he told us that was some kid wanted to lower his car some japanese car can't remember and he asked how to cut the springs so it would be lower then the tech when on a speil of how it lowers the spring rate.

my other ride is an ambulance!
1997 V8 sport - first car - sold 6/7/10
2006 silver mustang gt premiumcustom made grill, frpp shorty headers, pypes cat back exhaust, hurst billet pro shifter,
v8_superbirdy is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 11:42 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
d00mbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 154
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=120104

link to a post I made just yesterday with a brief, not step by step, pictorial of my installing Eibach springs myself. Might help give you an idea of what's involved, and if you want to do it yourself.
It's about 12 posts down the page.
d00mbuggy is offline  
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-11-2009, 11:21 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
so is it a bad idea to do lowering springs without any other suspension parts? the tech archive on here says that you need to adjust the toe and chamber or something, but i didn't rely get it.

niik000 is offline  
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:06 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
white 97 lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Illinois
Age: 44
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by niik000 View Post
so is it a bad idea to do lowering springs without any other suspension parts? the tech archive on here says that you need to adjust the toe and chamber or something, but i didn't rely get it.
I replaced damn near everything when I put mine in. That meant letting the springs sit for a year and a half after initially buying them but I wanted to do it right when I did it. Which by the way don't get in a hurry and make mistakes like I did Yes you do need to get aligned after taking your suspension apart (not sure about just changing springs)

teksid block with forged internals, MHS stage 2 heads and cams, 80 mm 03 Mustang MAF, Bullitt intake with Accufab oval throttle body, Kooks headers, 2.5 inch catless true dual exhaust, w/x pipe and Magnaflow Magnapacks, Dirty Dog 3000 stall marauder tq converter, BC automotive built 4R70w transmission ,MMX Dynotech Drive shaft, Trac loc differential with 3.73's, custom made fssb, and lecb, rear shock tower brace by Azzkickers, JL subframe connectors, Eibach 1.5" lowering springs, koni shocks, dyno tune by Tim Barth at Mr Norm's garage
white 97 lx is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 01:48 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
so just out of curiosity what would happen if i just ordered some 1.5" drop springs and put them on the car, with out messing with any of the other suspension parts? how bad would it be if i cut off 2 coils?

niik000 is offline  
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
5th Gear Poster
 
danalba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: bay city michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 433
thats what i was trying to ask lol. is it ok to just get springs.

MAC CAI/02 STANG MAF/SCT CHIP TUNED BY LONNIE
EIBACH 1.5 LOWERING SPRINGS- BILSTEIN GAS SHOCKS
90 SUPERCOUPE SIDE SKIRTS/REAR
18x9-FRONT: 245 REAR: 275
PI intake/PI cams
355 trac lok
new tune for swapped parts (93 oct)

no longer the owner.... but its still my child its just released into the world....
danalba is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 10:34 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
yah, theirs always a more expensive, time consuming way of doing everything, but sometimes i just want to know how bad it will be if do it the cheep way lol. lowering my car is worth like 300 bucks and 2 hours to me, id rather leave it alone than spend like a grand on suspension.

niik000 is offline  
post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 01:19 AM
Clueless Poster
 
v8_superbirdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 2,458
Send a message via AIM to v8_superbirdy Send a message via Yahoo to v8_superbirdy
Quote:
Originally Posted by niik000 View Post
so just out of curiosity what would happen if i just ordered some 1.5" drop springs and put them on the car, with out messing with any of the other suspension parts? how bad would it be if i cut off 2 coils?
the 1.5 eibachs are really quite nice springs frankly i like them better then sport springs for a daily driver the car feels better. i also have kyb gr2 shocks on my car and i cant shake my fist at those either. with good shocks and springs you may feel bumps a bit more but the way it handles just for daily driving feels so much better its like a night and day difference.

there's a very curvy road that i love to drive, constant s's like a slalom almost. before it didn't feel good as the car rolled from side to side like a top heavy truck and felt really cumbersome. with the new shocks and springs the car will go through this road at 70 mph and hug it.

eibachs for life. nuff said.

my other ride is an ambulance!
1997 V8 sport - first car - sold 6/7/10
2006 silver mustang gt premiumcustom made grill, frpp shorty headers, pypes cat back exhaust, hurst billet pro shifter,
v8_superbirdy is offline  
post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 07:58 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 418
i would recommend that you purchase lowering sproings and the proper shocks. why go through all the hassle to work on your car, and not use the proper parts and techniques.

there may be differing opinions on cutting coils and using shocks that are not valved properly for a lower ride height, but nobody can argue that lowering springs and proper shocks are not the proper way to do this.

here is a link to the tech article on installing shocks and springs:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12ho...ng_springs.htm

its an easy DIY garage project. it was my first tbird project and wasn't my last. save your money and do it right.

1994 Thunderbird - Renegade Racing Long block, TFHS Trans, NA/SVO intake. Cam94 lives!
2010 Shelby GT500 - Black/Silver
1995 Thunderbird LX - 2000 GT PI Swap by W&S Motorsports - Sold on Tccoa.
Bill H is offline  
post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 10:29 AM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
thanks. But if your car already has good shocks why change them? are you supposed to get shocks that are 1.5" shorter? and the wright up says you will need an alignment after changing the springs and shocks. Never herd of that with any other cars, but then again i know nothing about alignment.

niik000 is offline  
post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 09:05 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 418
because shocks have valves in them that are designed to work within a specified range of travel. if you lower the car and change that travel distance, they will no longer dampen the suspension like they are supposed to. it might even make it handle worse.

i bought new monroe shocks when i first lowered my car and the front end bounced like a junk yard reject. it was almost dangerous at highway speeds.

i had to redo the fronts with a shock that is properly valved for the lowered ride height. i think the rears are less susceptible to this issue.

you'll know during the test drive if you've gambled and gotten the wrong shocks.

i bought suspension techniques lowering springs from JC whitney and i remember them being very affordable.

1994 Thunderbird - Renegade Racing Long block, TFHS Trans, NA/SVO intake. Cam94 lives!
2010 Shelby GT500 - Black/Silver
1995 Thunderbird LX - 2000 GT PI Swap by W&S Motorsports - Sold on Tccoa.
Bill H is offline  
post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 10:20 PM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: albany, ny
Posts: 1,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill H View Post
because shocks have valves in them that are designed to work within a specified range of travel. if you lower the car and change that travel distance, they will no longer dampen the suspension like they are supposed to. it might even make it handle worse.

i bought new monroe shocks when i first lowered my car and the front end bounced like a junk yard reject. it was almost dangerous at highway speeds.

i had to redo the fronts with a shock that is properly valved for the lowered ride height. i think the rears are less susceptible to this issue.

you'll know during the test drive if you've gambled and gotten the wrong shocks.

i bought suspension techniques lowering springs from JC whitney and i remember them being very affordable.
Monore shocks specifically say they are for a zero drop on rockauto. Sensatracs especially have valving for a comfort zone (normal height) and a control zone to soften out bumps. When you lower the car you are probably riding in that soft zone.

Stock is probably similar too...they are definately made by Monroe, the engravings match to a monroe matic shock. Its best to get a shock designed for lowering.

If you want to see a video on exactly how a shock is made...

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/scie...rber-video.htm

95 4.6L Rusty Survivor!
tbirdguy is offline  
post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 03:30 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
will i need an alignment if i change the front shocks and springs?

niik000 is offline  
post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-15-2009, 03:46 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
niik000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill H View Post

i bought suspension techniques lowering springs from JC whitney and i remember them being very affordable.
this is all i found from JC whitney:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/COIL-SPRING...3419_10101.jcw

That seems even more ghetto than cutting a coil lol.

niik000 is offline  
post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 12:21 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 418
The sell actual lowering springs. Here is an example although you need to find the correct tbird part number:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...ion+techniques

1994 Thunderbird - Renegade Racing Long block, TFHS Trans, NA/SVO intake. Cam94 lives!
2010 Shelby GT500 - Black/Silver
1995 Thunderbird LX - 2000 GT PI Swap by W&S Motorsports - Sold on Tccoa.
Bill H is offline  
post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 29
cut coils, is this something that people consider doing???
not a good idea. Spend the money and do it right!!
matthew0155 is offline  
post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 08:15 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Super Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,164
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by niik000 View Post
will i need an alignment if i change the front shocks and springs?
No.

Only if you loosen the inner lower control arm bolt or the strut rod mount at the frame; you don't have to do that to change out the shocks.

Get a shop with a wall mount spring compressor to change out the springs; the rental tools aren't built for our springs, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 04:53 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Lil Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 237
Garage
Anytime you change the ride height of the vehicle it needs to be aligned. For a simple explanation, the alignment on the car changes as the suspension compresses. The design of the suspension takes this into account. If you lower the car, it tends to tip the tires in, causing the tires to wear more on the inside. Lowering can also have adverse affects on caster and toe, resulting in bad tire wear and drivability issues.

I haven't heard of progressive valving on shocks before - pertaining to the installed length, but then I've never looked into it that much. I always thought that the variable valving was based on pressure. The harder you hit the shock, the stiffer it is. Reguardless of the discussion this will cause, and to answer your question...

Stroke on the shocks hasn't changed, so you can just change the spring, get your car aligned, and be done with it. Even if there is a sweet spot in the shock travel, I doubt you will notice it over the ride difference from the springs. It is my opinion, that if you heat or cut your springs, it is next to impossible to get them even. So even for general street driving, buy the lowering springs. If you can, get the lowering springs for the sport or SC, they should be a little stiffer and keep you from doing too much damage to your car from bottoming out. Also, check your tire clearance. It is very disappointing to finish up your hard work only to find your fenderwell is taking rubber off your tires like a cheese grater...

Mike

1995 Thunderbird SC Terminator 6spd http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=89775
2006 F250 QuadCab Shortbox 4x4 6.0L- the I'm going to have to tow the T-Bird home when I break it vehicle.
1980 Dodge Mirada - Collecting tree sap at grandma's house - My first engine swap(s) - Slant 6 to 318 to 400
1973 Firebird Formula - Totaled - next in line after the T-Bird gets done. - Pontiac 350, 4spd, Ford 9", etc
Lil Mikey is offline  
post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 01:07 AM
PostWhore
 
CrystalPistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Age: 65
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew0155 View Post
cut coils, is this something that people consider doing???
not a good idea. Spend the money and do it right!!
A coil spring is a steel torsion bar bent into a coil. It's stiffness is determined by it's wire diameter and length and coil diameter. Cut it and it acts like the shorter torsion bar that it is. Cutting a coil spring results in a higher overall spring rate. Cutting a coil also means any travel must be shared by fewer "coils".

Whether it's a good idea or not depends on how well the resultant shorter stiffer spring works for the application. Sometimes it is bad, sometimes good.

I really like my '92 Sport's cut springs, 1 coil in front, 5/8 coil in back. Worked like a champ. Level, good ride, slightly stiffer but not much so.

I would not cut the coils of my '95 however, they are much lower rate std. LX springs and while shortening them will stiffen them, it also drops the car closer to the road and the springs just simply are not stout enough to prevent bottoming if shortened much. So ... I got a set of Sport springs to cut for it.

There is a lot to consider, the results are not always good ... but neither are they always bad.

A fine pair ... ... and whatever you do, Have a Safe Trip!

Last edited by CrystalPistol; 08-07-2009 at 10:47 PM.
CrystalPistol is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome