IRS/Subframe bushings.. - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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IRS/Subframe bushings..

Is there a way to still get them? Ford said they are obsolete. But im very very hopeful to still find them...

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12how-to/irs/irs.html

That's the link of what im talking about. My mechanic said hes afraid of taking the subframe bolts off, because he might rip apart the bushings. Is this true? and if the parts cant be found you guys think there is another way?

I have a 94 V8 TBird
All started when I was getting the subframe brackets replaced. Because they rusted out.

This is my first post here, so sorry if I typed too much or too little but im glad I found this website, it's helped me a lot to better my Thunderbird.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 01:46 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Will these work?

http://www.steeda.com/products/cobra...e_bushings.php

Here is a nice thread with IRS info; from everything I've read, the IRS setup is pretty much the same between the cobras and our rides.

I'm sure someone will flame, um, Correct me if I'm wrong...

EDIT: I'm wrong. Not even the same.

I found an older thread that discussed it all.

The parts are still available, but are $350ish.

See this post for partnumbers.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=38

I've been looking for this info too.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 07-09-2009 at 02:21 PM.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 10:47 AM
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The major problem is actually getting the bolts loose. If you have any rust in your area it is going to be tough. Using a impact wrench you would think they would come loose but the impact is absorbed by the bushings. Looking at the bolts the shank under the head seems to rust solid to the inner steel bushing liner and makes it hard to get them out.

Then you have the problem of getting the bushings out of the subframe and the new ones installed. Ford had a special tools for doing this ((T85M-5638-B1-B2-& B3)....I bought a set on eBay but you need to get a second kit to get the required Forcing Bolt T79P-5638-A1 which has a 1/2" -13 UNC thread.

I am in the process of rebuilding a rear subframe assembly for my 95 SC. Hoping to build an entire set-up...drop the original and put in the rebuilt unit for my restoration project. When removing the subframe from my parts car we had major issues getting it out.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 03:52 PM
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I have used a breaker bar with a 6 ft pipe and still fought them bolts. I have on several occasions had to drill the frame to heat the upper nut.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 05:05 PM
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What really really sucks is when the nut spins inside the frame.... then you will be breaking out the hole saw and having real fun...
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 09:11 PM
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There are plenty of rust free bolts in AZ if someone needs help with getting some of them.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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So far I have replaced the two front bushings.. bolts were incredibly rusted.. had to cut the frame and still took a day, to take one bolt off.. I still have to wait to get my hand on the rear bushings.. been waiting for a reply from a supplier about them, but ford does not make them anymore or have any. Thanks for the links!
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 11:02 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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What about these guys?

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214120

There are other ford sites that seem to show them in stock... But I haven't called anyone.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 11:45 AM
 
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has anyone found these bushings?
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 10:05 AM
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Wow, I just got two sets from here (Ford Parts Counter) in Dec.

As far a removing those bolts, GOOD LUCK.

I only replaced the front two in Dec. When I pull the diff, I will remove the whole sub-frame. The plan for the bolts that don't come out is cutting the bolts with a reciprocating saw between the top cup and the frame. The bolt left in the frame, I will weld a large nut to, though the center of the nut. The heat and new metal strength usually helps me remove tough bolts like these.
As for the bushing, my bolts were rusted solid to the steel sleeve inside the rubber. (It's Ohio.) The top cup was even rusted solid to the steel sleeve. The bushing won't drop out the bottom of the sub-frame until the top cup comes off. So with the sub-frame out were I can get at it, I'll soak the top cup with penetrating oil and use an air chisel / punch to beat the two pieces apart. After that and with the bushing in a press, I'll use more penetrating oil and the press to remove the last of the bolt.

I still would like a non-rusting bolt ...
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=118651
But there was no interest from this forum and I can't afford to buy them all myself.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:13 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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My book says they are epoxy coated; maybe that's part of it.

EDIT; you said that above...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:37 PM
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Ford Shop Manual also says the bolts are single use. I suspect this is because the epoxy coating is destroyed when installed and they will no longer stay positively "locked" tight.

I suggest that anyone reusing same consider the use of extra strength Locktite. I looked at the torque specs for these bolts and it is not that high so I doubt bolt stretch is an issue when torqued.

Also consider the use of Never Sieze on the shank of the bolt to prevent it from rusting to the sleeve of the bushing.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:43 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffy Floyd View Post
Also consider the use of Never Sieze on the shank of the bolt to prevent it from rusting to the sleeve of the bushing.
I do that on everything I take off; anti-seize, and compatible locktite.

Duffy, did you see the thread about the spherical bearings? How do you feel about that?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 08:49 PM
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Grog6,

Saw it. Is running on SCCoA too. I don't think much of the idea myself but each person needs to make their own decisions based on their own personal research.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 06:27 AM
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The two replacement bolts I bought in Dec did not have an epoxy coating. They seemed to have a dark green chromate style corrosion coating with red thread locking compound.

I used anti-seize on the bolt shank and grease on the steel sleeve and top cup. Of course I painted everything first.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 06:39 AM
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I had called the inside sleeve steel, but it was very soft, more like a malleable iron. One hammer hit and the sleeve mushroomed like brass or copper.
The sleeve is also tapered, like a cone, were it is attached to the rubber. When I helped designed other automotive bushing, we used this same technique to control the deformation rate. So for our rear sub frame bushings, they will allow the sub frame to move down a lot easier than the sub frame can move up.
All this allowable movement in the sub-frame makes me wonder about using hard plastic, Delrin style replacements. I don't have enough power to worry about wheel hop yet, but I wonder if making this joint solid would help. It would certainly make the ride much more harsh.
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