Eibach vs Vogtland need opinions - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Eibach vs Vogtland need opinions

For background info, I have three Thunderbirds:

A rustbucket 96 (PI heads) with sport springs and tokico blues a stock front sway bar and 1-1/8" addco rear bar.

A new to me 96 sport with a stock suspension.

A Vortech supercharged PI motored 97 with Eibachs, Tokicos and 1-1/4" Addco bars front and rear.

I have a set of 1" drop Vogtlands Springs I had purchased for the rustbucket when I broke a spring but I didn't use them because I found a replacement spring. I also have a new set of tokico blues for the 96 sport and a 1-1/8" Addco rear bar.

My plan was to use the 1" drop Vogtland springs on the 96 Sport but I have never really thought the Eibachs were great on the 97. They always felt kind of soft so I thought about putting the Vogtlands on the 97 but I like that car lower for the looks and handling increase. So I had the thought of buying 1.6" drop Vogtlands for the 97 and selling the Eibachs. Has anyone every directly compared these springs? Would this be worth time and money? Is there a better choice for 1.5" drop springs? Does anybody know the spring rate of the 1.6" drop Vogtlands. I created a chart below for the spring rates for all the springs I could find. I guessed at a 7.5% increase in rate of the 1.6" Vogtlands over the 1" drop spring.


Last edited by stokasz; 01-26-2010 at 08:52 PM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 10:08 PM
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I ran the Eiback sport springs on my 97 and had no issues. They ran great. High quality products. 2nd car I've put them on.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 11:55 PM
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I have 1" drop Vogtlands on my '97 T-Bird sport and I'm very pleased with them. I had to replace my front coil springs shortly after I bought the car in April of last year because one of them was broken. The shop that did the work for me installed Moog springs but I was never happy with them - the front end "floated" up and down too much with them when going over dips on the highway! I shortly thereafter rebuilt my entire front suspension and I used that opportunity to install Vogtland 1" drop coils all the way around. I've never regretted it! They are not too harsh over bumps, yet the car feels tight and well controlled.

Dennis
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 02:26 AM
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Eiback sport springs here as well, Work great. That being said tho Voglands are the best from all reviews I have seen.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 10:23 AM
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I have the 1.6" Vogtlands on my car and am very happy with them.

I found this information on spring rates over at SCCOA. In this thread. Post #8.

These numbers vary from slightly to dramatically from what you have in your table for the Vogtland springs.
I'd trust these numbers since they're directly from Vogtland; and I'm certain that these numbers will be the same for all MN12's regardless if they're V6 SC, LX V6 or LX V8's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox at SCCOA

September 27, 2008

Getting information on these springs is like pulling teeth...

I read a review on a Mustang install and spoke to a vendor and all comments were very positive. This is a quality product!

Spoke to an SC vendor but he didn't know spring rate, so I e-mailed Vogtland and will post info. when I get it. So I posted my questions on the technical forum.

You can read the replies @: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102772

1" Vogtland: 315-412 front / 530-650 rear

1.6" Vogtland: 365-400 front / 600-713 rear

1.5" Eibachs: 286-411 front / 514-714 rear

1.5" Suspension Techniques: 432/631 Linear

From the measurements from those who have Vogtland, the drop on the 1" springs is right around 1" (maybe just under) and the 1.6 give the exact same drop as the Eibachs.

So what does this all mean?

The initial rates on both Vogtland springs is higher than the Eibachs. In my books, this is a good thing as I find the Eibachs a little mushy on smooth surfaces and because of that, the rate quickly climbs on sharp bumps. So IMO, based on these numbers and without having tested a car with Vogtland springs, both Vogtland springs should provide a better ride on rough surfaces. The 1" Vogtland should provide a ride quality very similar to stock while giving you the handling benefits of the drop.

Other factors to keep in mind:
  • Good springs are only 1 part of the equation. Condition and quality of your shocks will also play a big role in ride quality and handling.
  • Polyurethane spring isolators and sway bar bushings will give you better road feel and a tighter steering feel but will transmit some of the irregularities from the road. The density of the poly also varies, so not all are created equal.
  • Larger sway bars will work similar to increasing spring rates without giving you such a harsh ride.

The rule that I like is "as soft as possible and as stiff as necessary". It really depends what your expectations are and what you want to do with the car.

There appears to be allot of interest for these springs. Maybe we should set-up a group buy for our club. What is the procedure?

Hope this helps.

Denis
Here's an additonal review/comparision of the Eibachs vs Vogtland that I found very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox at SCCOA

December 20, 2009

A few people had asked me about these springs and to comment on the ride.

I got them installed late September and I'm very happy that they performed exactly as expected. Refer to my comparison on page 1 of this thread. They sit exactly 1/2" higher than the Eibachs (which may not seem like much) but the effect on ride quality is significant. As I pointed out earlier, maybe most of the improvement may come from the higher initial spring rate compared to the Eibachs. This provides a much smoother transition when hitting a harsh bump. That low initial rate may also have been responsible for a high speed oscillation on the highway, which is now completely gone. The car doesn't have a slammed look and appears very natural with 17" wheels and low profile 35 and 40 series tires. Obviously when it comes to looks this is entirely a personal thing. I'm running Koni adjustable shocks on all four corners and this is a great combination.

I met a guy at Mosport who was running the 1.6" version on a V8 T-Bird and he was very pleased with them.

These springs may not be that well known in North America but they are a high quality German product.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...=102742&page=2
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Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-06-2010 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Spell check and dress up formatting.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-28-2010, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Great information. I'll post an updated chart for everyone. I have 1.6 drop Vogtlands and Konis ordered. I am taking the suspension to the next level. I will probably sell the set of Eibachs. I have to decide what I am doing with the 1" drop Vogtlands in my attic.

Any opinions on 1" drop Vogtlands with Tokico blues? I am not buying another set of Konis for a winter car or should I just stick with the sport springs and Tokico blues for the winter car?
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-28-2010, 05:32 PM
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It depends on what you are looking for. I had Eibach/Bilsteins on my 93. I had the OEM Sport suspension on my 96 and later installed 1" Vogtland/Konis. The Eibachs gave good handling, were not overly harsh, but compromised ground clearance a bit. So if you drive on substandard roads, this may be a problem.

The 1" drop Vogtland - with the adjustable Konis give a great combination of ride and performance. This setup is more forgiving on rough roads. Personally, I would not use any other spring combo and I certainly would not lower more than 1".

Mitch
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2010, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Well I kind of like the slammed look so I am going to try out the 1.6" drop Vogtlands and Konis on my supercharged 97. I definitely hear you about the road quality and drop height but I have never really had a problem with the Eibachs even so they have settled to about 1.75" drop. I probably hang on to the 1" drop Vogtlands just in case.

I have concerns about lowering a winter car for snow use (I live just outside Buffalo, NY) but so many cars have less ground clearance than Thunderbirds and seem to have no problems. I have run sport springs with Tokicos and that makes a decent combination.

Anybody ever run 1" drop Vogtlands with Tokico blues? How did it work for everyday use?

Thanks


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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 12:31 PM
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Yeah, I've got the same question about Vog's and Tokico Blues......... was going Tokico springs and blues, but now having second thoughts becuase of the drop. I don't want to go too low on my Mark VIII, I drive it every day ;-)
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 08:04 PM
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does anyone have a part number for the vogtlands 1.6 drop for a 96 lx
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 09:34 PM
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FORD THUNDERBIRD "Ford Thunder Bird, SC, V8 ", Years 1989-1998, Drop 1.6", Part Number 953058

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 12:31 PM
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I just got the Vogtland 1.6's a couple of weeks ago. Im waiting to install. Does anyone have a pic of how they'll look on a bird with 17's?

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 01:35 PM
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 10:50 PM
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ahh im gonna have to pick me up some
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 11:19 PM
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I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the H&R's. I've had them on my SC for 10 years now, with Koni's for the last year, and couldn't be happier.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-10-2010, 01:40 PM
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so whats the stiffest shock/spring combo for our cars? and is it true that SC springs are stiffer than any of the aftermarket springs?
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-29-2010, 03:07 PM
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i just bought some intrax sports there like 2'' drop and the guy that sold them to me said they were noticably stiffer than h&r's. as they are in route to my house right now idk for shure yet. so has anyone run these before? did i buy junk or get lucky i got tokico hp's with them for 450 shipped never bolted on a car all n.i.b.

i think if your looking for a stiff set up the sway bars are just as important as the springs/shocks/strutts.
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