Spitballing a strutrod idea. - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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Spitballing a strutrod idea.

The more I look at it, the more I cuss a the front suspension design. I'm curious to know if anyone has thought of replacing the mushings with a 4WD style hiem joint?

It would involve a little cutting and welding. Most likely transfer more road noise into the car too. However, if you could find a Monster hiem that you could sleeve with a bushing where it meets the body I think it would be well worth it.

Any thoughts?

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 10:57 AM
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I like the idea! I think it would be hard and labor intensive, but well worth the end result

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post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 11:29 AM
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I think Ford engineers spent a lot of time designing the front suspension to perform better than any other vehicle on the road.

But go ahead and stick a heim joint on it - and let us know how it works out for you.
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post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 01:11 PM
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The MN-12 design is one of the best ever.

I doubt you will be able to improve on it.
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post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 01:36 PM
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The strut rods were a compromise to reduce NVH.

Rig up a custom K member with true lower A arms from some other car if your going to cut and weld

-Matt
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post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The strut rods were a compromise to reduce NVH.

Rig up a custom K member with true lower A arms from some other car if your going to cut and weld
The drag strut suspension allows the front wheels to recede and absorb impacts as they encounter sudden elevations in the road. Directional bushings reduce bumpsteer to a minimum. The bump harshness the drag strut transmits to the body is fed into the extreme front of the structure, at least 12 inches farther forward of the passengers than would be the case with double wishbone suspensions.
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post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 04:09 PM
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Hi

My buddies late model has a similar front suspension.
except the strut arms go to the rear. ours goes to the front.


Paul [email protected]
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post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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IMHO the factory bushings do a great job for their intended purpose. But when pushed there's not much to stop them. Steering geometry goes out the window...

The idea I have in mind isn't a bolt in kit, but should be fairly easy to install. & keep the wheels where they're supposed to be

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 06:46 AM
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heim joints are 70 year old technology theres new and improved lol

check out the ballistic joints made by www.ballisticfabrication.com

its essentially a heim joint with a nylon bushing which gives it the best of both

they make them in forged chromoly! Made in the good old US of A and even come with a 1 time free replacement warranty.

check it out
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...nt_p_1636.html

you can't beat that price with a gun and a ski-mask

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post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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That's exactly the creature I had in mind thanks for the link. AND they also offer LH threads for ease of adjustment at alignment time.

looks like for $100 I've found my next project!

My new plan is to design a box style sub-assembly to hold the link & fit around the outside of the chassis. Then notch the area where the strut rod goes through & reinforce if necessary.

I'm going to be a lazy arse and get the boxes built right by somebody else. Plus it would look much better bent up out of 1/4" plate rather than welded together flat stock.

I think this is going to be an easy mod. If anyone is interested I'll get some quotes for a GP price.


Mostly stock...

For now...

Last edited by Kaptn' Obvious; 04-16-2010 at 02:06 AM.
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post #11 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 10:31 AM
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The soft OEM front strut rod bushing is supposed to give some longitudinal compliance. Impact harshness is bad enough with firmer bushings in that location. Without any compliance at all, the impact harshness will be ridiculous.
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post #12 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-24-2010, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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I agree, the OEM bushings do make for a nice ride. That's not my goal with this project. I would like to take the squish out of the strut rod setup & see what it does for the handling.

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #13 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-24-2010, 06:00 PM
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That sounds cool, so you would be able to adjust caster alot easier as well?
-Rob

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post #14 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Yup yup, Just like adjusting the toe. I'm going to order a pair of end links this week. I'll design the cradle mounts after I have all the parts in hand to play with.

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #15 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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I just ordered a pair of LH 1"- 14 joints & a set of matching LH thread jam nuts.

I need a bit of help: What is the size & thread pitch of the strut rod nut? From what I can measure my best guesstimate is it's a M24X3. My last hour of searches have only yielded a bunch of dorks asking what size wrench they will need... (Go find a metric crescent wrench... )

Second, I need a good accurate straight line measurement from the LCA to the chassis inside mount. I'll need to chop the factory arms off short of the bushing mounting point, but I don't know where. I'd measure from my ride, but my bushings are shot and the front end has been knocked around couple times. I'd like to compare a couple of numbers from a virgin ride with a good alignment & go from there.

Thanks!

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #16 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 08:32 AM
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Ummmm, I can take a measurment.....but you may not want them from me.

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post #17 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 09:02 AM
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Hi

What bushings are you trying to replace?
The front or rear?

I got some nice bushings from Rich, mn12performance. Who makes them now?


Paul [email protected]
1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
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post #18 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird View Post
Ummmm, I can take a measurment.....but you may not want them from me.
I'll take what I can get. I'd like few sets of measurements so I can get a good average. I'm going to put the car on the ramps Saturday and do some quality head scratching...

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #19 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaptn' Obvious View Post
I'll take what I can get. I'd like few sets of measurements so I can get a good average. I'm going to put the car on the ramps Saturday and do some quality head scratching...
reason I said not from me......my suspension right now in the front is all the way up with no load on it....is that okay?

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post #20 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Shouldn't mater. I'm looking for the strutrod length grommet to grommet. I'll see If I can snap a pic tomorrow.

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #21 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:29 AM
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I like your idea and will be following this thread.

First off, is there any advantage to making the strut rod longer? By moving the pivot point further forward you should get less caster change as the suspension compresses and extends. Is that something to consider?

Secondly, do you want to keep the stock bushings where the strut rod connects to the ball joint?

There's a lot of choices for a front joint. Have you heard of a Johnny Joint? It's like a rodend, but has replacable and adjustable races that hold the center metal ball. (EDIT: I checked the link above and it's the same style joint I was mentioning.)
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post #22 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 09:28 AM
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A little daffy!!

Hello

Here are some pictures:
96 V6 Thunderbird, Bad bushings. lol


About 13" to daffy
About 17 1/4" to strut rod bushings starts
About 21" to end of rod
About 3 1/2" extend out other end.

Hope this helps

Paul [email protected]
1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
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post #23 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I was just looking under my car. It looks like it's going to be easier than I thought. From what I can see the best method looks like cutting a notch in the sub frame to clear the new hiem. Then cut the strutrod off somewhere around where the threads end, & cut new threads for the adjustment sleeve farther back on the strutrod. It looks like it should be fairly easy to mount the hiem joint with a pin bolted on either side to the subframe.

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #24 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 07:04 PM
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Very interesting....can't wait to see how it all works out.

Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
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post #25 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 07:53 PM
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Still?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaptn' Obvious View Post
Thanks for the info. I was just looking under my car. It looks like it's going to be easier than I thought. From what I can see the best method looks like cutting a notch in the sub frame to clear the new hiem. Then cut the strutrod off somewhere around where the threads end, & cut new threads for the adjustment sleeve farther back on the strutrod. It looks like it should be fairly easy to mount the hiem joint with a pin bolted on either side to the subframe.
Hello

Still don't know where you are going with this?

Paul [email protected]
1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
3.90 open rear
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post #26 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-04-2010, 05:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtess View Post
Hello

Still don't know where you are going with this?
No offense, but if you bothered to read the entire thread you would know... To S-P-E-L-L-I-T-O-U-T-F-O-R-Y-O-U The theory is to replace the front squishy front strutrod mount with something solid that keeps the suspension geometry intact no matter what you throw at it. This concept doesn't restrict suspension travel, yet still keeps everything firmly in their place. My car handles like a fat pig. In my mind the more variables I can take out of the equation the closer I am to getting her behave well when thrown into the twisties...

Next on my list of things to buy for the bird is a lil truck. I need something to scoot to work & back & still haul home random parts. I've looked at a few, I'm 6'3" and don't fold into most well. Any thoughts on the truck dilemma? I'd like to keep it under $5K....

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #27 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-04-2010, 09:40 AM
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Daymotorsports

Hi

Check out Daymotorsports.com. They sell stock car parts.
look at "J-bar" or panhard bars. maybe a shock mount for mounting?

What about the rear strut rod bushings? I think they should be upgraded first?


Paul [email protected]
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351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
3.90 open rear
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post #28 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-04-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdtess View Post
Hi

Check out Daymotorsports.com. They sell stock car parts.
look at "J-bar" or panhard bars. maybe a shock mount for mounting?

What about the rear strut rod bushings? I think they should be upgraded first?

You might as well redesign a new LCA with lifetime bushings.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #29 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-05-2010, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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I think the factory rear bushings are fine. I have a brand new set ready to go in when I start cutting... The bushings that are in there now are the factory ones. They still seem to be in good shape with only a slight case of dry rot. They will be replaced anyway, just cuz I feel like it...

Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #30 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-07-2010, 03:11 PM
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Surely people have roadraced or autocrossed these cars. How did they beef up the suspension?
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