99+ Interceptor IFS swap - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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99+ Interceptor IFS swap

I'm planning to put a 99+ IFS from a Police Interceptor under the MN12s front. As so I have researched the track width is the same. If anyone has done this swap before feel free to throw some info out there. Thanks. I have a buddy in t he salvage buisness trying to find me one.

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Found some more info 03-07 Pi IFS is the most wanted setup as it has the aluminum crossmember and only 8 bolts holds the setup in. I also found 34" is the frame width on the Vic and our cars also have a frame width of 34" should be interesting.

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 07:21 PM
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That is cool. I've been reading about this on the Ford truck forums as it seems pretty popular. How much does that aluminum CV front sub-frame weigh? I wonder how much a stock T-Bird front sub-frame weighs?

Anybody has any answers, please post! Twin Turbo 281, please post plenty of pics and let us know what you find out too!

I'm excited!

BTW, the way I weighed my IRS was simple. With the IRS removed from the car, put one wheel on one scale, and the other on another scale (regular bathroom scales). Add the numbers together (the iron Bird IRS weighs ~409 lbs, the alum Mark VIII weighs ~355 lbs - this is with two Mark VIII spare tires).

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 07:57 PM
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Wait wait, explain this, because I live in an area saturated with late model CVs. Especially wrecked ones.

How do you pull this, and how much weight advantage are we lookin at?

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 08:28 PM
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Weight won't be much, our stock ifs isnt that heavy.

I'm interested to see this project to eliminate the strut rods for true A arms. Height top to bottom is needed too, if its too tall its a dealbreaker

The aluminium k member isnt the most desirable part of the 03+ setup, it uses rack and pinion, has better brakes, ect. The pre 03 chassis parts date back to 1979

-Matt
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 09:25 PM
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this is amazing. I was thinking about adapting the crown vic ifs before, but I didnt realize it was a removable crossmember setup on the 03 and ups. I am sure you could get this to work, and because the spring hat is integrated into the cross member, it looks like you could eliminate the shocktowers too
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 09:26 PM
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heres a link to a thread on it. hope this helps!

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...67-f100-4.html
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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I have seen that thread I talked to the guy who owns that truck. He did the swap so he could place an isuzu diesel into his truck. Im not worrying about the weight savings I'm doing this to support the front end as i will be adding a few hundred pounds of diesel iron to the front and I don't trust the tiny mn12 arms. Also yes it will remove the need for strut tower however I will most likely just leave them there for structure. I may have to cut out a good slot right above the rails at the bottom of the towers to bolt the IFS on However the area where it needs to bolt up actually has a recess there It may just need to be widened? We will see soon as I source a IFS. I have ads on craigslist and multiple people tracking one down.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 10:18 PM
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removing the strut towers is a pretty common practice in classic mustangs with ifs upgrades. when you cut the strut tower out you weld new metal in to patch the hole, and it actually ends up being stronger than it was originally with the strut tower. Additionally, if you remove the shock towers, you could REALLY piss off the mn-12/FN-10 community because then youd have room for the dreaded completely impossible and stupid 5.4 DOHC swap.
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-09-2010, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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yeah I guess I would have the room to do the 5.4 swap. I'm going with a legendary diesel however. I originally planned on the 6.2 diesel due to size but I scrached that idea as the 6.2 isnt the most reliable. Im planting a rotary pumped 6BT cummins with a getrag or nv4500. Would be nice to have 400+ ft lbs with maybe 30 mpg and a bulletproof motor. Its going to be alot of work. First I will tackle the IFS and get it running then full length subframes /frame reinforcement...then the cummins swap.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
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removing the strut towers is a pretty common practice in classic mustangs with ifs upgrades. when you cut the strut tower out you weld new metal in to patch the hole, and it actually ends up being stronger than it was originally with the strut tower. Additionally, if you remove the shock towers, you could REALLY piss off the mn-12/FN-10 community because then youd have room for the dreaded completely impossible and stupid 5.4 DOHC swap.
its not the shock towers thats in the way....its the frame rail...big diffrence.





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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:58 AM
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For those contemplating this swap, I recommend you consider the MAJOR differences between chassis designs between a full frame chassis (i.e. Truck/CV) and a uni-body chassis (i.e. MN12/FN12).

Even with the current 4.6L weight/power levels the firewall has a tendency to crack. What will happen when a diesel is added and triples the torque? Simple sub-frame connectors aren’t going to cut it.

But obviously I’m not a chassis designer, so just my .02.

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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I will be keeping the cummins close to stock which will have a power output in the 400-500 ft lbs range. There have been plenty of MN12S around here that are way beyond that without major body reinforcement, subframe connectors, cage....So the torque is not a concern. After all why the engine bay is vacant I can then decide if I want to reinforce the firewall. As for the weight there has been a Vic interceptor with a 4BT cummins which weights in @ 800lbs dry the 6BT weights in at 940lbs dry. The 4.6L is roughly 500 dry. For a gain of roughly 500 lbs to the front. This is why I want the PI IFS which has the 700# springs.

I have found a few 03+ IFSs. May pick one up this weekend. One for 300$ out of an 05 and another with only 60,000 for 350$ (trying to talk this one down). I want to get this done asap.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 09:17 PM
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Why not just do the 4BT engine, Smaller and lighter then the 6BT?
Just give the engine little more boost and you'll be happy?

I like to swap a 4BT into a Ranger myself.. and if i had the $$$ force like 40+ PSI into it
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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because. The 6bt only weighs 200 more lbs. 6BT is cheaper and easily found. Stock 6BT has more power than a modded more expensive 6BT. 6BT sounds better 4BT sounds like a tractor.....6BT will fit in the mn12 bay without firewall mods (maybe a little bit of tunnel massaging however)

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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:08 PM
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Hmm I search Ebay, and 4BT seem to be a hair cheaper, if not in the same price range..
Also i bet the 3.9L 4BT will get better gas mileage then the 5.9L 6BT.
and from the Videos i heard online and The Trucks with them in person, the 4BT doesn't sound bad, unless you plan on not running an exhaust?? then again almost anything will sound bad then

also the 4BT has the same HP (least the latest) as the 3.8L Gasser that comes in Fords of the MN12 vintage (130hp), but i'm certain a fair amount more torque
and there's guys compound boosting the 4BTs (with nearly instant boost to) too around 50-60 PSI.. So you can get the `modded' 4BT (and odds are not to extremely too) to have the same power levels as a stock 6BT
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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they will still sound different either way. I always love driving a 6BT with an open exhaust. Love the big rig sound. Around here I can find drivetrains and complete donor trucks in the 1000-2000 range. I rarely see a 4BT around here for less than 2000 for just the motor. Also then consider the cost to bring the 4BT up to the power level of a stock 6BT. The 4bT also dosent have that much room for future gain. You can turn the power up on the 6BT pretty high.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 08:55 AM
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Hi

Do you have pictures of the IFS?

do you know the weight (lbs) of the front springs?

A good picture of the sway bar mounts & steering.


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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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the reasearch i have done seems to say 700# springs. I do not have the weight. Im leaving in a second to go check one out may have one by tomorrow.
Here is a link with alot of pics... http://www.fordification.com/forum/v...dbf192ae553a33

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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may have one for 250$ but woulnt be able to pull it until next weekend. The rear trailing arm mounting may be a pita

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 01:20 PM
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The rear trailing arm mounting may be a pita
The rear trailing arm mount will be the least of your problems. You're trying to adapt a front subframe that was built around a frame to a unibody car with no frame to mount to.

Your ideas are always certainly... out there. The CV subframe, I kind of want to see. The diesel... no comment.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 01:45 PM
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If the mounting height is similar like the width I can see it working without too much effort .

Try looking into the trailing arm mounting for the s197's, they are mounted on cross braces that go from the center of the Kmember to the torque boxes.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 07:37 PM
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2003 Interceptor. LOTS of room in the engine bay. I should take a shot from the top



thats from the front where you can see you have cutouts where the control arms are for the coil overs


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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If the mounting height is similar like the width I can see it working without too much effort .

Try looking into the trailing arm mounting for the s197's, they are mounted on cross braces that go from the center of the Kmember to the torque boxes.
Sorry I didn't mean to say trailing arms. I was in a hurry when I posted that. I meant the lower control arms mounting point of the vic IFS. The rear mounts are 16" from hub centerline. That places the position on the Mn12 frame rail beyond the flat spot into the rail downturn next to the firewall. The height differance will help as the mounting on the vic seems to mount lower than the Mn12s rails. I still have alot of measuring to do. The rail width is the same as the vic so bolting the crossmember on will work. One other issue will be siffening the pinched frame rails of the Mn12. I'm sure Ill figure that out. I have plenty of heavy box tube and tube stock laying around. While I was out at the yard I came across a pile of 12v cummins motors so I got to do some exact measurement. It will sit lower in the bay than I previously even thought from the info on the net. The Vic crossmember will also gain alot of room unlike the bulky stock K. The upgraded IFS will also come with bigger brakes another plus considering tghe front will be a bit heavier. I plan to kee pthe rear 100% stock minus a 4.5 hub swap to match the vic hubs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare View Post
The rear trailing arm mount will be the least of your problems. You're trying to adapt a front subframe that was built around a frame to a unibody car with no frame to mount to.

Your ideas are always certainly... out there. The CV subframe, I kind of want to see. The diesel... no comment.
There are frame rails on an Mn12. They are boxed 4 1/4"x 2" rails that run along the firewall to the front of the car. Like i said i will also be reinforcing these rails with additional steel and tubing. My ideas are out there and some of my past stuff was killed before ever completed but many factors contributed including my lack of fabrication knowledge and mostly the financing to back a build. This time the financial stuff is taken care of and my welding and fabrication is better.

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 12:55 AM
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HOw much of this vic IFS is aluminum? I think the made them with aluminum upper and lower control arms and cross members so if you can meld this with a bird where it comes out stock weight that would be fantastic.

Spinning pies like wheels.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 08:38 AM
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Interesting.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 09:18 AM
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The rail width is the same as the vic so bolting the crossmember on will work.

There are frame rails on an Mn12. They are boxed 4 1/4"x 2" rails that run along the firewall to the front of the car. Like i said i will also be reinforcing these rails with additional steel and tubing
I am well aware of the frame rails, but that's still not the same as having a frame under the body. You'll probably want to stiffen the entire car rather than only the front. I did not know it was the same width so that was my main concern in that area. Is that 4 1/4" the same as the CV frame?
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 09:53 AM
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Sorry I didn't mean to say trailing arms. I was in a hurry when I posted that. I meant the lower control arms mounting point of the vic IFS. The rear mounts are 16" from hub centerline. That places the position on the Mn12 frame rail beyond the flat spot into the rail downturn next to the firewall. The height differance will help as the mounting on the vic seems to mount lower than the Mn12s rails. I still have alot of measuring to do. The rail width is the same as the vic so bolting the crossmember on will work. One other issue will be siffening the pinched frame rails of the Mn12. I'm sure Ill figure that out. I have plenty of heavy box tube and tube stock laying around. While I was out at the yard I came across a pile of 12v cummins motors so I got to do some exact measurement. It will sit lower in the bay than I previously even thought from the info on the net. The Vic crossmember will also gain alot of room unlike the bulky stock K. The upgraded IFS will also come with bigger brakes another plus considering tghe front will be a bit heavier. I plan to kee pthe rear 100% stock minus a 4.5 hub swap to match the vic hubs.



There are frame rails on an Mn12. They are boxed 4 1/4"x 2" rails that run along the firewall to the front of the car. Like i said i will also be reinforcing these rails with additional steel and tubing. My ideas are out there and some of my past stuff was killed before ever completed but many factors contributed including my lack of fabrication knowledge and mostly the financing to back a build. This time the financial stuff is taken care of and my welding and fabrication is better.
the measurment changes....it does not stay the same.....so measure again.....trust me, the entire front frame is not 4 1/4 x 2 all the way through.....heck, right where it turns down on the passenger side is about 10 inches fron top to bottom...maybe a bit wider...then it thins out again.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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I know It changes but it mostly stays 4x2 thru the flat spot the k is bolted to. if I wanted to get really into the project it would be nice to remove the stock rails and replace with some heavier box tubing (basically build a frame) As far as the width being the same osn the vic I forgot to measure that part next time Im at the yard I will do that measurment. However even if it is. I am planning to upgrade the rails in some form or shape. A great deal of the IFS is aluminum heres a pic...as yo9u can see the rail mounting height is alot higher than 4"

This is not going to be a walk in the park trying to adapt this IFS but I'm up to the task.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 04:59 PM
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mounts?

Hi

How do you motor mounts connect? I am looking to use a 351W.


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