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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Koni coilovers


^Koni coilover next to the Tokico blue and Eibach it replaced

Had a few races to try my custom Koni coilover setup. They work great. 650 lb rate springs are amazing on these cars. It's astounding how fast it changes directions now. Where before there was plenty of front end dive and roll, it's now way flat



The only problem being now, it seems that Koni has discontinued the 8649-1201, the front strut for our cars. After I got them installed the first time, after driving around the block, one of the struts had blown out all it's oil. I will say they that Koni was able to get mine repaired in time for the first race

"WHAT CONE?!?!

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1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 01:30 AM
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Nice!

Where'd you get the tube, adjusting collar, and top seat?

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
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The tube and collar are from Summit, they're supposed to be for Bilstein SP series struts, but they're the right size for this application. The top seat is a custom piece milled out of aluminum. It pays to be part of a fire department that has a fabrication shop

"WHAT CONE?!?!

1997 T-Bird Sport, 'Interceptor' (12 ESP 2008-2012)- CAI, 2.25 duals, Flowmaster 40 series, Clear corners, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, TrickFlow upper intake, PI Intake, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, LE stripes, Bullitt-style gauge faces. 18x9 wheels, Sniper tuned, 3,620 pounds


1991 Ford F250 - Air restrictor delete. Cat delete.

1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelsey Smith View Post
The tube and collar are from Summit, they're supposed to be for Bilstein SP series struts, but they're the right size for this application. The top seat is a custom piece milled out of aluminum. It pays to be part of a fire department that has a fabrication shop
Thanks!

The top seat shouldn't be a problem, I've got a lathe.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 08:49 AM
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very nice!

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rest in peace JL
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 08:49 AM
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Hrm, I've never studied coilovers before and I wanted to see if you could explain their use to me.
I see that ride height may be adjusted by that ring that essentially is the lower perch from the spring.

Does this style of coil over allow you to adjust it while the spring is under load and the coilover itself is installed the car? How is that possible considering a standard spring/strut assembly requires a lot of force to compress the spring? Is this because a coilover's spring is significantly smaller in diameter?


I've heard of some kinds that allow adjustment of ride height on the track but I wasn't sure if you can do the same with the ones you bought and I'm curious to learn how it works.

Thanks in advance,
-g

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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The main reason I did it was so I had more options for spring rate. These are over 200 lbs stiffer than the Eibachs they replaced. The ride height is adjustable as well, which would probably be more of a benefit for a road race car, or maybe a more street driven car with track duty. As my car is more or less committed to auto duty, I've just set my ride height here I want it (And where it's high enough for my door to clear the tire on my trailer lol)

There's a special bearing that can be installed between the bottom perch and the spring, that makes it way easier to adjust the spring. Another nice thing about these is they don't require a spring compressor to disassemble. So it would be possible to change the spring rate trackside. The ride height could easily be adjusted during a pit stop. There's a spanner wrench that fits into a notch on the lower spring perch, and easily adjusted. The struts are easier to adjust, just a little dial on the top of the shock.

I also took some pictures of the top seat. I got it lathed out so it would fit on a stock upper rubber perch




"WHAT CONE?!?!

1997 T-Bird Sport, 'Interceptor' (12 ESP 2008-2012)- CAI, 2.25 duals, Flowmaster 40 series, Clear corners, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, TrickFlow upper intake, PI Intake, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, LE stripes, Bullitt-style gauge faces. 18x9 wheels, Sniper tuned, 3,620 pounds


1991 Ford F250 - Air restrictor delete. Cat delete.

1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 11:11 AM
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I have what is called, torrington bearings in between my spring and bottom nut.


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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 12:17 PM
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I didnt read all of the post. What brand are the 650 lb springs? Are they 2-1/2 ID? What length?

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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They're 10 inch, 2 1/2 ID, QA1 springs. 650 as the highest QA1 had, and anything higher than 650 was about double the price per spring, so 650 was where I started

"WHAT CONE?!?!

1997 T-Bird Sport, 'Interceptor' (12 ESP 2008-2012)- CAI, 2.25 duals, Flowmaster 40 series, Clear corners, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, TrickFlow upper intake, PI Intake, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, LE stripes, Bullitt-style gauge faces. 18x9 wheels, Sniper tuned, 3,620 pounds


1991 Ford F250 - Air restrictor delete. Cat delete.

1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

2004 Toyota Solara SE - V6, Sport package, Muffler delete, 17X7 wheels, 235/50 Conti ExtremeContact DWS
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 12:26 PM
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Nice! From what I've read about this on SCCoA from mercutio's posts, the upper mount from a D&D coilover kit will work as well.

I'm going to have to do this, too bad it will have to be with Tokicos

-Matt
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird View Post
I have what is called, torrington bearings in between my spring and bottom nut.

Thanks for the explanation, I believe i understand now.
Unlike the stock setup, the bearing will allow to bottom perch to move independently of the spring. You can then compress the spring and lower the ride height by moving the lower perch. Interesting!

If I understand correctly, you need that custom machined top spacer b/c the overall length of the spring is shorter than what's required in the tbird application, right?

Q: Do you have an equivalent coilover system in the back since the rear shock is separate from the rear spring?

If so, what's it look like?

-g

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 08:24 PM
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I'm going to have to do this, too bad it will have to be with Tokicos
I'm thinking Koni racing inserts; summit carries a bunch, but they're pricy...

How do you get spec sheets for the racing inserts from Koni? There has to be a way.

Then we just have to find an appropriate shock body to mount it into. And appropriate spring perches, of course.

I hate to waste cash on shocks I'll hate; nothing else feels like my konis +sport springs.

With the Konis and bracing I got from JL, it's solid as a rock, even with stock swaybars; I want this for my other cars.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
Thanks for the explanation, I believe i understand now.
Unlike the stock setup, the bearing will allow to bottom perch to move independently of the spring. You can then compress the spring and lower the ride height by moving the lower perch. Interesting!

If I understand correctly, you need that custom machined top spacer b/c the overall length of the spring is shorter than what's required in the tbird application, right?

Q: Do you have an equivalent coilover system in the back since the rear shock is separate from the rear spring?

If so, what's it look like?

-g
I have not tempted to put coil ovrs in the rear, in fear of too much stress on the lower control arm shock mount.

Also, I don't plan on having my rear settup for too long, as I want to back halve my car.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2011, 08:48 AM
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Does the coilover setup provide room for wider tires/rims? I look like it might since it looks like the overall package has a lot smaller diameter.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2011, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 Daily Driven 4.6L View Post
Does the coilover setup provide room for wider tires/rims? I look like it might since it looks like the overall package has a lot smaller diameter.
No, coilovers wouldn't provide any more clearance because there is still a spindle in the way.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
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No, coilovers wouldn't provide any more clearance because there is still a spindle in the way.
That's right, it is the spindle where it attaches to the upper a arm, not the flange on the bottom of the shock that is in the way.

Thanks!

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2011, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Hindsight being 20/20, what I should have done, or if these Koni inserts start to have problems, it would have probably been easier to fabricate a bracket to mount a conventional coil over shock in place, rather than deal with the Koni swap and coil over conversion, but it's what I have, and I do love it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I hate to waste cash on shocks I'll hate; nothing else feels like my konis +sport springs.

With the Konis and bracing I got from JL, it's solid as a rock, even with stock swaybars; I want this for my other cars.
If you've already got Konis, this upgrade is easy, it's just a matter of removing the lower spring perch, and slipping the threaded collar on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
If I understand correctly, you need that custom machined top spacer b/c the overall length of the spring is shorter than what's required in the tbird application, right?

Q: Do you have an equivalent coilover system in the back since the rear shock is separate from the rear spring?

If so, what's it look like?

-g
Negative, The top 'spacer' is more of an adapter to use the replacement coil over spring with a factory rubber mount. I figure that way should be better for component life, and less transmission of road noise. If the spring was shorter, the bottom sleeve could be adjusted up as necessary.

In the rear I'm still using to stock setup, with Tokico blue shocks and Eibach springs. The Eibachs are almost as stiff as they come, and I didn't want to buy new springs for an extra 20-30 lb rate. I also contacted Eaton springs, and was quoted $3500 (!) for custom rear springs. I can't go to coil overs on the rear secondary to the class rules for SP cars in Solo 2. I can change the spring and shock, but can't change the mounting points.

"WHAT CONE?!?!

1997 T-Bird Sport, 'Interceptor' (12 ESP 2008-2012)- CAI, 2.25 duals, Flowmaster 40 series, Clear corners, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, TrickFlow upper intake, PI Intake, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, LE stripes, Bullitt-style gauge faces. 18x9 wheels, Sniper tuned, 3,620 pounds


1991 Ford F250 - Air restrictor delete. Cat delete.

1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

2004 Toyota Solara SE - V6, Sport package, Muffler delete, 17X7 wheels, 235/50 Conti ExtremeContact DWS
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 10:18 PM
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We need to find a new insert from Koni or someone else, that we can build a shock around.

Koni makes a range of racing inserts; It's possible we could find something that would fit...

Would DOT approval be a problem for this plan?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 10:30 PM
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**** DOT, I'll graft in a bicycle shock if it worked

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2011, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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MN12 might be just a little too heavy for bicycle shock. Just a hunch

"WHAT CONE?!?!

1997 T-Bird Sport, 'Interceptor' (12 ESP 2008-2012)- CAI, 2.25 duals, Flowmaster 40 series, Clear corners, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, TrickFlow upper intake, PI Intake, BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, LE stripes, Bullitt-style gauge faces. 18x9 wheels, Sniper tuned, 3,620 pounds


1991 Ford F250 - Air restrictor delete. Cat delete.

1991 T-Bird 'Interceptor II' (12 CP 2013-) - Race-prep, Full custom "interior", Carb'd 302, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads, stage 1 cam, Custom Koni coil-overs front, Koni yellows rear, Cobra front brakes, fuel cell, 18X9 wheels, 275/30 Hoosier A6, 4.11 T-Lok. 3000 pounds

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We just need to find the mountain bike version

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2011, 09:40 PM
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We just need to find the mountain bike version
I'd want a full-face helmet to ride that, A faceplant from up there would leave a stain, lol.

I also care less for approvals; especially if it fits in a stock-looking package.

How do we get a spec catalog for their racing inserts?

If we can find a match of damping energy and travel with our mn12s, I'm good to build a set...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 07:10 PM
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What car do they come from thats close ? I thought about honda coilovers . I knew the 650 lbs springs were it !!
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-27-2011, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
If we can find a match of damping energy and travel with our mn12s, I'm good to build a set...
Looking at the specs for the monroe shocks I have:

the strut body is: 12.750"
the compressed length is 13.375"
the extended length is 19.750"
travel is 6.375"


These look like they could be put into a custom housing, much as the current inserts are...

Brand Koni
Manufacturer's Part Number 86111257RACE
Part Type Shocks and Struts
Product Line Koni 8611 Series Double Adjustable Race Strut Inserts
Summit Racing Part Number KON-86111257RACE

Internal Design Twin-tube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 19.690 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 14.060 in.
Body Diameter (in) 1.713 in.
Upper Mount Stud
Quantity Sold individually.
Notes 5.63 in. stroke, 11.42 in. body length, and is designed to fit through a 5/8 in. bearing camber plate assembly.


That's from here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KON-86111257RACE/

Looks doable, but expensive...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Looking at the specs for the monroe shocks I have:

the strut body is: 12.750"
the compressed length is 13.375"
the extended length is 19.750"
travel is 6.375"


These look like they could be put into a custom housing, much as the current inserts are...

Brand Koni
Manufacturer's Part Number 86111257RACE
Part Type Shocks and Struts
Product Line Koni 8611 Series Double Adjustable Race Strut Inserts
Summit Racing Part Number KON-86111257RACE

Internal Design Twin-tube
Adjustable Yes
Gas Charged No
Boot Included No
Extended Length (in) 19.690 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 14.060 in.
Body Diameter (in) 1.713 in.
Upper Mount Stud
Quantity Sold individually.
Notes 5.63 in. stroke, 11.42 in. body length, and is designed to fit through a 5/8 in. bearing camber plate assembly.


That's from here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KON-86111257RACE/

Looks doable, but expensive...
Thread resurrection.

I don't think this would be too difficult to adapt. In fact, as I think more about it, the way I fabbed up the spherical bearing for the top mount, I could also probably make a spring perch that is welded to the entire structure that would allow the use of a set of QA1 springs. I'm thinking that making the bottom sleeve with the sleeve adjustment would be possible too without a lot of technical work.

This may be a project after I get Humpty Dumpty back together again.

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 08:46 AM
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There is a thread here somewhere, I can't seem to find it, that showed someone remove the lower mount for our springs, and use it to be the lower plate on a set of coilovers.

He used our springs, the only different thing was the way he modded the lower perch, and added a torrington bearing for the adjustment.

I looked for a while, I'll try some more searches later.

I'm sure the other springs will work too, this just looked easier, but IDK.

Given how much we mod the shock bodies for the bilsteins, this doesn't seem too bad.

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
There is a thread here somewhere, I can't seem to find it, that showed someone remove the lower mount for our springs, and use it to be the lower plate on a set of coilovers.

He used our springs, the only different thing was the way he modded the lower perch, and added a torrington bearing for the adjustment.

I looked for a while, I'll try some more searches later.

I'm sure the other springs will work too, this just looked easier, but IDK.

Given how much we mod the shock bodies for the bilsteins, this doesn't seem too bad.
Honestly, given the inconsistencies in the stock shock body, the flimsy material and the cost of the donor, I would just use steel tubing for the body and some square tubing for the bottom mount. It gives you a good place to put the insert and a place to put the bottom spring perch threaded tube.

Keep in mind that my approach to this is from a racing perspective so I want it all to be durable too. I'm thinking things like 1/8" thick materials minimum for durability.
Grog6 and CDsDontBurn like this.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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