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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-30-2011, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Moog USA vs. Moog Canada − and TRW

For those who may be wondering what's up with Moog lately, the following may help.

As the beginnings of a complete front end job, I ordered L & R upper and lower Moog control arms for my '96 Bird from Amazon − free shipping beats Rock Auto.

What I received:

8598 upper R arm
Made in USA
Markings:
"80021F - RIGHT H8EH Q" cast on arm
"2 80024LZD MOOG Mount Inboard" on boot; high-strength steel color (gold) retainer
"Moog Problem Solver - 54" stamped on ball housing
"100" on end of ball stud

8596 upper L arm
Made in Canada
Markings:
"80020F - LEFT H9EC N" cast on arm
"4 80024LZD MOOG Mount Inboard" on boot; gold retaining ring, same as USA
"Moog Problem Solver - 54" stamped on ball housing
"1X00 1X00" on end of ball stud

Both upper arms came with a loose 90° Zerk fitting. Neither joint has the blue boot that you've probably seen on the parts sites − they're black. This probably won't make much difference to the average DD user.

80053 lower L arm
Made in USA
Markings:
"TRW LEFT 137." cast on arm
"2 TRW 62159" on boot
"15907D" stamped on ball housing
lime green boot lower retaining ring; gray upper ring
provided nut has red compound (threadlock?) & cream colored (glue?) in it

80055 lower R arm
Made in Canada
Markings:
"TRW RIGHT 144" cast on arm
"1 TRW 62159" on boot
"27408D" stamped on ball housing
pine green boot lower retaining ring; gray upper ring, same as USA
provided nut has clean threads

Both lower arms have transparent boots as shown on various parts sites. Neither has a Zerk fitting. The Canadian boot is permanently squashed to about two-thirds the height of the USA one − if extended, it retracts; the mold is obviously different, since "1" is on the Canadian version.

Both USA ball joints are quite a bit tighter than the Canadian joints. It is MUCH easier for me to move the Canadian ones around by hand than the USA ones. I can barely budge either of the USA ones. The Canadian upper arm ball moves around like a pc flight stick (set on high tension). The Canadian lower arm ball is tighter than that of the Canadian upper arm, but still much less stiff than the USA version.

The bushings (all evidently rubber, in case you're wondering) appear identical between countries in terms of dimensions and quality of manufacture/installation.

It's obvious that Moog = TRW, at least insofar as these particular parts are concerned.
It's also obvious that the tooling/tolerances are different between USA and Canada factories.

My concerns:
1. How will the differences between USA vs. Canada play out in real world driving conditions?
2. Assuming equal/constant wear rate throughout the life of the joint, will the Canadian version wear out quicker than the USA version, since it's already looser to begin with − assuming the same material type and grade is used in both USA and Canadian versions?

Canadian quality control apparently isn't up to USA standards, as the upper Canadian arm has a small slash (hole) in the dust boot (aside from the grease outlet).
I'm thinking about returning the Canadian upper arm to Amazon, due to the boot defect (who wants to start out with a damaged boot, especially at these prices?), and requesting that they send a USA-made arm in its place. If they'll do that, assuming 8596's are also made in the USA and that Amazon has some, I should probably try to get a USA replacement lower arm as well.
Considering the labor that a complete front end job entails − as mentioned, these arms are the first step in this particular rebuild − I'd really prefer to start out with exact match L/R pairs if possible.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Torque; 05-30-2011 at 02:23 AM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-30-2011, 07:45 AM
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Agreed. Send it back and try to get a USA model.

Otherwise I'd say there will be no noticable difference between the two over the lives of the parts.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-12-2011, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Returned it. Amazon sent another Canadian arm. I dunno if they didn't bother reading my RMA remarks or if they just don't stock any USA versions of this particular arm. The replacement is stiffer than the first Canadian arm's joint, but still not as tight as the USA one.

I'm going to contact Moog and see if they even make the particular arms in question in the USA. It could be the only way to get these particular USA-made arms is to find NOS (really old) somewhere.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-12-2011, 11:20 PM
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does the TRW have the life time warranty like the moogs?
My understanding is that the TRWs are the same as the stock ones.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-13-2011, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice217 View Post
does the TRW have the life time warranty like the moogs?
My understanding is that the TRWs are the same as the stock ones.
Oops.. I forgot to mention that the TRW lower arms came in Moog-labeled boxes. I assume this means they're covered by the same warranty as the uppers.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2011, 10:53 PM
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Could the Canadian versions of suspension parts have different/more grease in them? I've pulled boots off brand new stuff in the past and seen it's almost dry...

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2011, 11:41 PM
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Couldn't they have just put the TRW's in a MOOG box? bad thing about Ebay/Amazon is you really never know what you're getting so you have to be careful. They can put anything in any box and I think a lot of people never check so they get away with it.

-Kelly
===================================
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 03:01 PM
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i just received my rh upper control arm part number mook8598 moog part from rock auto.. its a trw arm sealed joint clear instead of blue seal . i called customer service and they carry the same warranty he is calling federal mogul to see if they changed over to this versus the grease zerk one. the joint is very tight so im not worried about quality yet. ill update when he calls me back.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 03:14 PM
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well their customer service it top notch.. already called back. moog ran out of the greasable ones so they sent the trw part.. moog didnt notify rock auto of this until he called today. so know everyone knows. he said they willl get more of the servicable ones at some point aswell.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-19-2011, 11:24 AM
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Tim changed my upper control arms yesterday and we noticed when he got one of the old ones (TRW) off, that the new one(Motorcraft) seemed beefier. Both the steel structure and the ball joint. I'll post a pic of the comparison tomorrow. Were doing the rear axle/pumpkin swap today so it's going to be a long day.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-20-2011, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEyes View Post
Tim changed my upper control arms yesterday and we noticed when he got one of the old ones (TRW) off, that the new one(Motorcraft) seemed beefier. Both the steel structure and the ball joint. I'll post a pic of the comparison tomorrow. Were doing the rear axle/pumpkin swap today so it's going to be a long day.
I just read this AMAZON LOL. Tell them to get the pickers heads out of their @sses and pick you two of the same. And have it verified by the packers before it hits SLAM. I know Amazon unfortunately I have seen moog this and that on the shelves but no tbird parts.

Yes Kelly is right about Amazon I personally can tell you there is a risk with ordering there when you have something as tricky as getting matching separate items. Most people working for amazon are literally zombies and Just grab things half the time to make their rates for either inbound or outbound. Even putbacks and returns have a rate. Although it is cool to see a favorite cd youd never expect to see on their shelves in quantity.

Kelly my hands are still black. I need to clean up and eat still. Come by later and we can do a bleeding leisurely.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2011, 11:58 AM
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Here's the UCA's. the old one is a TRW the new one is Motorcraft. The Motorcraft one looked beefier and felt heavier, the ball joint boot is different too. Not sure which one has the better bushings though, the TRW's lasted about 8 years and the ball joints are still fine, they outlived the bushings.


-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEyes View Post
Here's the UCA's. the old one is a TRW the new one is Motorcraft. The Motorcraft one looked beefier and felt heavier, the ball joint boot is different too. Not sure which one has the better bushings though, the TRW's lasted about 8 years and the ball joints are still fine, they outlived the bushings.

You ARE aware that's a plastic cover over the ball joint on the new one, right?

Needs to be removed before installation?

Like the wrapper around processed cheese slices?

RwP
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2011, 11:08 PM
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Actually that is not a cover, that is the bellow for the grease. We put the zerk in and filled it with grease, you could see it filling up. There is nothing underneath it and it is really soft pliable rubbery plastic bellowed to expand and contract.

I know it looks like a cap but trust me it's not. cool idea though, you can see if there's grease in it or not. Tim put red synthetic grease in it and you can really see it well.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
WTB: 90 SC BHJ harmonic balancer

Last edited by BlueEyes; 06-22-2011 at 02:14 AM.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 02:23 AM
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Yeah its the boot not a cap I personally filled it up, this is the 3rd time I've personally installed UCAs I know what Im talking about not that its hard to know its just that Im not a total noob doing it. You people like to confuse yourself.

Ralph I think you have plastic wrap over your eyes...

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 08:41 AM
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Yeah its the boot not a cap I personally filled it up, this is the 3rd time I've personally installed UCAs I know what Im talking about not that its hard to know its just that Im not a total noob doing it. You people like to confuse yourself.

Ralph I think you have plastic wrap over your eyes...
Huh. First clear boot I've ever seen.

My UCAs had the clear plastic cover over the boot - as did the LCAs.

My mistake.

RwP
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 01:43 PM
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My Motorcrafts with the zerk have a blue boot(greenish now with grease), I always thought it was the OEM TRWs that had the clear boot.

-Matt
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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My UCA's (both USA-made and Canada-made) have black boots.
My LCA's (both USA-made and Canada-made) have clear boots.
I don't know why they'd bother putting clear boots on the LCA's. It certainly isn't to verify there's grease in there, since there are no Zerks on them. Perhaps the clear is a different, more durable material than the black? They seem identical other than color.

I can take some pics before they go on the car, if anyone's interested.

I also contacted Federal-Mogul support with some questions raised in this thread, including my own. I'll post their response when I get it.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
My Motorcrafts with the zerk have a blue boot(greenish now with grease), I always thought it was the OEM TRWs that had the clear boot.
I didn't get a pic of the other side of the UCA but the new one is a Motorcraft for sure.

As far as the boots go I'm sure they just pop on whatever their supplier sends them whether it's blue, black or clear. On the non-serviceable ones you can drill it and put a zerk in there, not sure if it's really a good idea but it can be done.

Quote:
Perhaps the clear is a different, more durable material than the black? They seem identical other than color.
It actually is a different type of material and it's thicker. Well in my case it was but the old TRW was like 8 years old. It seems to be more like plastic than rubber.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
WTB: 90 SC BHJ harmonic balancer

Last edited by BlueEyes; 06-22-2011 at 07:17 PM.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-01-2011, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Over a week later and still nothing from Federal-Mogul. I know they received my inquiry, as their automated system emailed me to that effect.
Horrible customer service.
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