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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-27-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Subframe bushings ?

Ok ,I've got the Moog part numbers for all the bushings for the rear end of my 96 Bird ,plus the ones for the diff housing too. 1 1/4 Addco sway bar,3.55 gears , KYB shocks , new calipers, spindles & rotors, most I already got and some on order but my bushings are my last items to get before I drop the rear end...Im trying to go back with a little bit better than stock setup and 17' wheels...

Have planned dropping the subframe and getting a few more welds added to it so with it out I was going to replace the 4 mounts/bushings on it but haven't had any luck finding them after making a bunch of calls and checking out a bunch of auto parts web sites....Has anyone found a place to get them or am I going to have to reuse these old ones ? I sure would hate to put those old ones back in after rebuilding ever thing else in the rear end with new parts.....

Thanks for any info....T Hill
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-27-2011, 10:48 PM
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Before you panic, check DLF's replacements.

Although, they'll be a bit firmer (HA!) than the old rubber ones were.

But yah, they're obsolete from Ford.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-27-2011, 11:27 PM
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supercoupeperformance .c om sells solid aluminum. Maybe of you added rubber isolators to the aluminum ones they wouldnt be so harsh.

DLF has his set too. Neither are supposed to be for DD application I might add. Unless someone can tell me they weren't bothered by them for a DD use Im sticking to that premise.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-27-2011, 11:33 PM
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"A bit firmer (HA!)" was along the lines of "Water is slightly wet", according to what DLF says.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-27-2011, 11:41 PM
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Sounds rough and uncomfortable.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-29-2011, 11:04 AM
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It's only supposed to be an estimated 10% reduction for the aluminum ones. But that's a guess, there's no exact data.

-Kelly
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90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-29-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEyes View Post
It's only supposed to be an estimated 10% reduction for the aluminum ones. But that's a guess, there's no exact data.
I have to call BS on that. I know that's what is posted, but with my UHMW mounts, which transmit far less noise and vibration than solid aluminum, it's more like 25%.

98 Toreador Red Mark VIII LSC - 13.221 @ 104.91
95 Pearl White Thunderbird SC 5spd - 12.879 @ 106.66
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-29-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLF View Post
I have to call BS on that. I know that's what is posted, but with my UHMW mounts, which transmit far less noise and vibration than solid aluminum, it's more like 25%.
DLF what about adding something softer to isolate the harshness a bit 25% is more realistic. That sounds like its too hard for DD street cars and yeah I thought the 10% number was BS too.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-29-2011, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Splattered View Post
DLF what about adding something softer to isolate the harshness a bit 25% is more realistic. That sounds like its too hard for DD street cars and yeah I thought the 10% number was BS too.
My intended purpose for making these was to eliminate sub-frame movement to provide the best performance. Anything softer would compromise that goal.

Having said that, there are several folks driving around every day on my sub-frame mounts. It's really not as bad as you seem to think.

98 Toreador Red Mark VIII LSC - 13.221 @ 104.91
95 Pearl White Thunderbird SC 5spd - 12.879 @ 106.66
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-29-2011, 10:52 PM
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Yea I didn't really buy the 10% either but that's what Bill put on his site along with the statement that it was merely a guess. Hopefully I'll never have the need to replace mine.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLF View Post
My intended purpose for making these was to eliminate sub-frame movement to provide the best performance. Anything softer would compromise that goal.

Having said that, there are several folks driving around every day on my sub-frame mounts. It's really not as bad as you seem to think.
Then why did you say they arent meant for a DD. I mean loud music isnt safe to have on the road and it makes everyone uncomfortable to hear/feel my music but doesnt mean I didnt get used to it. I certainly have roughened up the ride already with sport springs and tokico/bilstien shocks. I added the usual round of body braces too. Dont know how much rougher this car is gonna get with your bushings. I want to go with 17s one day and that makes it even rougher on top. I just dont want a herniated disk or new fillings in my teeth.

Spinning pies like wheels.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 01:44 AM
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The only thing that you might be feel or hear from the rear subframe being solidly mounted is the Diff(which with rubber or poly bushings is still somewhat isolated.

The front subframe is mounted solidly without isolation besides the components individual bushings, impact harshness through suspension components won't be much at all in comparison through the rear.

-Matt
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 02:42 AM
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The only thing that you might be feel or hear from the rear subframe being solidly mounted is the Diff(which with rubber or poly bushings is still somewhat isolated.

The front subframe is mounted solidly without isolation besides the components individual bushings, impact harshness through suspension components won't be much at all in comparison through the rear.
And then its becomes necessary to add sub frame connectors to stop the body flex that now is transferred through the body. I wouldnt spend the money on these bushings without a set of (RIP) JL style sub frame connectors. I just fear for cracks in the body once you take out all the stock mushiness.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 03:49 PM
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Rear suspension movement is already transferred directly through the body, the shocks and springs are connected directly to it. Only thing added to the mix will be the UCA/LCAs.The diff would be the major component losing isolation but the energy it was previously displacing isn't being absorbed by the bushings as much, but the added load isn't being transferred through the body either, rather through the halfshafts and tires.

-Matt
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Rear suspension movement is already transferred directly through the body, the shocks and springs are connected directly to it. Only thing added to the mix will be the UCA/LCAs.The diff would be the major component losing isolation but the energy it was previously displacing isn't being absorbed by the bushings as much, but the added load isn't being transferred through the body either, rather through the halfshafts and tires.
OK step one weld up a rear sub frame....

Not worried about my halfshafts no one breaks gen2 mark shafts with an auto car. Tires are only a problem when an engine swap is done.

Honestly Id drop the money to have a DLF complete bushing set for the IRS if I could. I did the mark IRS swap already so yeah I dont mind a bit rougher ride. I have poly diff bushings already and a diff cover brace not worried about that thing being harmed. I dont have a torsion load brace or pinion angle brace though are any of those needed to prevent damage to the body? Im only talking about with a stock v8.

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 07:43 PM
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Those braces help strengthen the irs cradle itself, the braces that effect the body are SFCs, STBs, Floor brace(the one below the exhaust in front of the gas tank), L/V brace, and front cradle bracing.

Having the IRS cradle mounted more solid to the subframe might actually help stiffen the body as a side benefit if you think about it. It will essentially act as a really beefy X brace and tie the rockers and rear frame rails directly together.

-Matt
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, guys believe it or not but I did find some NOS bushings !!, BUT only the rear ones..
# E9SZ5K617A can be bought at Collectors Auto Supply 1 800 414 4462 for 28.00 each..
The guy I talked to was Greg Swank, he said they had about 25 of them and they were Ford parts . I ordered 4, 2 for this car and 2 for future use... The front ones , E9SZ5D006B he could not find anywhere.......So 2 out of 4 ain't to bad......
Thanks guys for all the input and info about the other bushings but im going to try and stay as close to the stock setup as I can on this car as far as the suspension goes , just mildly updated , now if I was building one for more of a street/strip car or just strip, the other bushings would be in it forsure........
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 01:56 PM
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I hate to break it to you, but that part number you've listed, E9SZ-5K617-A, is for spring isolators (MSRP $19.98), not the sub-frame mounts.

The correct part numbers for the obsolete sub-frame mounts are:

E9SZ-5D006-A (front-2 required) MSRP - $78.70
E9SZ-5D006-B (rear-2 required) MSRP - $80.18
E9SZ-5D001-A (retainer-4 required) MSRP - $46.70

It'll be interesting to see what you receive.

BTW, the spring isolators can still be purchased for ~$13.19 each.

98 Toreador Red Mark VIII LSC - 13.221 @ 104.91
95 Pearl White Thunderbird SC 5spd - 12.879 @ 106.66
98 Laser Red/Black Cobra Coupe (T-56/IRS) - 12.483 @ 110.94
My Web Site
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Last edited by DLF; 01-02-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 02:00 PM
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oops...

-Kelly
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90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Using the Tech Articles section, irs buildup, that is the bushing numbers I used...
Is the tech articles wrong or did something change,did I misread something????????
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 03:38 PM
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Will be interested as well what comes in the mystery box.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 04:01 PM
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Using the Tech Articles section, irs buildup, that is the bushing numbers I used...
Is the tech articles wrong or did something change,did I misread something????????
Yup, the numbers in that article are incorrect.

98 Toreador Red Mark VIII LSC - 13.221 @ 104.91
95 Pearl White Thunderbird SC 5spd - 12.879 @ 106.66
98 Laser Red/Black Cobra Coupe (T-56/IRS) - 12.483 @ 110.94
My Web Site
Delrin IRS Bushing Kits - UHMW Spring Perches - SS Steering Joints
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 04:58 PM
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But still who ever you talked to when you ordered them should have told what the part was. Huge difference between the two.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
WTB: 90 SC BHJ harmonic balancer
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Those braces help strengthen the irs cradle itself, the braces that effect the body are SFCs, STBs, Floor brace(the one below the exhaust in front of the gas tank), L/V brace, and front cradle bracing.
Elaborate!
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Yep got my spring isolators yesterday...not mounts....
hope someone changes that tech article...
I might go ahead and use 2 of them and send the others back......
Oh well......chicken one day , pile of feathers the next.....lol
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 12:54 PM
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Your car takes 4 springs isolators, an upper and lower on each side.....

98 Toreador Red Mark VIII LSC - 13.221 @ 104.91
95 Pearl White Thunderbird SC 5spd - 12.879 @ 106.66
98 Laser Red/Black Cobra Coupe (T-56/IRS) - 12.483 @ 110.94
My Web Site
Delrin IRS Bushing Kits - UHMW Spring Perches - SS Steering Joints
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