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post #1 of 4 (permalink) Old 01-14-2015, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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New spring options?

Well thanks to my good buddy who does the service work on my '94 Cougar xr7 at the local Ford Quick Lane, I have learned all 4 of my suspension springs are broken, in fact all but the rear drivers side are broken in more than one spot. Not too surprising, they are original to the car and fairly rusted on the surface.

I have what looks to be a slight "sag" in the back suspension, like the car is about to do a wheelie, but I have seen a few other MN12's like that, is the sagging an indicator of another problem or just how the car sits? Just curious folks!

What options are out there for recommended brands of springs? I want to get a more "high-performance" feeling ride from the car. I did see the 1" and 1.6" lowering springs on SuperCoupe Performance's website, and they aren't too much more than the stock OE springs. What's everyone's thoughts on lowering springs versus OE?

I am new to suspension work as well, I've only replaced front lower Ball Joints in my old '03 Taurus sedan before, will spring replacement require special tools or a lot of time? I can't be out of commission to drive for more than a day or two but have a garage and most basic hand tools available.

Thanks folks!
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post #2 of 4 (permalink) Old 01-14-2015, 05:10 PM
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Go Vogtland or go home. A few of the links below have since expired but what you'll need is still there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Alright Guys, (bad93bird and Axlehead)

I'll answer both of your questions first then go into details.

Bad93Bird, it's $205.00 for a set (four springs). Vogtland is a great German company - (think Mercedes and BMW; you can't beat German Engineering) they've been making suspension components for years. You can check out their website at: www.vogtland-na.com. I purchase mine from SCP but spinningwheels may give you a better deal.

Axlehead, I haven't heard of Intrax but that doesn't mean that it's not a good product. I will tell you that you're the first person I've seen in a thread to mention them. I also haven't seen these springs listed on anyone's ride in the readers rides section. http://www.tccoa.com/rides/ - at least not on the 1995 models that I've looked at. You could check for yourself - may be you'll find someone else that has the Intrax that you can ask about them.

In case you haven't already discovered, there are two great companies you can find online that specialize in parts for our cars:

www.spinningwheels-sc.com

and

www.supercoupeperformance.com

They both sell Vogtland Springs, and I recommend talking to - or emailing - both of them about your personal preferences. I have purchased parts from both spinningwheels and SCP and am very pleased with their service. I have spoken personally with Victor, the owner of spinningwheels, and he's a great guy.

There was a third company, MN12Performance, that also sold parts for our cars.
They are now closed but their site has been archived by CINTCC.
They have a lot of great how-to's and other useful information still posted. You can see the archived site HERE.

These springs - at least the one's I listed on 11-27-06 are like Coke and Pepsi - they're equally good - It's all a matter of personal preference. If you haven't done so already, check out the Shocks and Springs article (second from the top) at: http://www.tccoa.com/articles/suspension/index.html#

Check out all the articles here for that matter.

The Vogtlands aren't mentioned here but, based on my research; I'd say they're a hybrid (blend) between the progressive and linear rate types of springs. Check out the Sport Springs tab at the Vogtland website.

And last but not least. Don't forget about all the other hardware you'll need when lowering you bird. New spring cups for the rear and shorter rear sway bar end links. This would also be an excellent time to look at replacing the shocks and upgrading the rear sway bar.

I hope this helps. Good luck Guys!


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post #3 of 4 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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SCP is $50 more per set for Vogtland lowering springs than the price of SCP stock height springs. Sounds like that's too good of a deal to miss out on. What advantages will I see with them? Obviously lower center of gravity will give better handling in general but what aspects will be improved? I mainly want to eliminate the "lean back" wheelie feel when I take off moderately hard from a stop, and get as much body roll as possible eliminated. I know sway bar upgrades can help body roll, but I would assume springs have to help somewhat.
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post #4 of 4 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 01:35 PM
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If your stock springs are broken. You'll be more than happy with a new set of Vogtlands. You'll also want to replace the shocks if they're old.

I'll copy/paste the info that I posted from another thread here for you:

See the spring rates in the technical articles at this link:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12-t...gs/springs.htm

I also found this information on spring rates over at SCCOA. In this thread. Post #8.

Also see this thread here:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?p=1280536

Quote:
Originally Posted by stokasz View Post
For background info, I have three Thunderbirds:

A rustbucket 96 (PI heads) with sport springs and tokico blues a stock front sway bar and 1-1/8" addco rear bar.

A new to me 96 sport with a stock suspension.

A Vortech supercharged PI motored 97 with Eibachs, Tokicos and 1-1/4" Addco bars front and rear.

I have a set of 1" drop Vogtlands Springs I had purchased for the rustbucket when I broke a spring but I didn't use them because I found a replacement spring. I also have a new set of tokico blues for the 96 sport and a 1-1/8" Addco rear bar.

My plan was to use the 1" drop Vogtland springs on the 96 Sport but I have never really thought the Eibachs were great on the 97. They always felt kind of soft so I thought about putting the Vogtlands on the 97 but I like that car lower for the looks and handling increase. So I had the thought of buying 1.6" drop Vogtlands for the 97 and selling the Eibachs. Has anyone every directly compared these springs? Would this be worth time and money? Is there a better choice for 1.5" drop springs? Does anybody know the spring rate of the 1.6" drop Vogtlands. I created a chart below for the spring rates for all the springs I could find. I guessed at a 7.5% increase in rate of the 1.6" Vogtlands over the 1" drop spring.

I have the 1.6" Vogtlands on my car and am very happy with them.

I found this information on spring rates over at SCCOA. In this thread. Post #8.

These numbers vary from slightly to dramatically from what you have in your table for the Vogtland springs.
I'd trust these numbers since they're directly from Vogtland; and I'm certain that these numbers will be the same for all MN12's regardless if they're V6 SC, LX V6 or LX V8's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox at SCCOA

September 27, 2008

Getting information on these springs is like pulling teeth...

I read a review on a Mustang install and spoke to a vendor and all comments were very positive. This is a quality product!

Spoke to an SC vendor but he didn't know spring rate, so I e-mailed Vogtland and will post info. when I get it. So I posted my questions on the technical forum.

You can read the replies @: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102772

1" Vogtland: 315-412 front / 530-650 rear

1.6" Vogtland: 365-400 front / 600-713 rear

1.5" Eibachs: 286-411 front / 514-714 rear

1.5" Suspension Techniques: 432/631 Linear

From the measurements from those who have Vogtland, the drop on the 1" springs is right around 1" (maybe just under) and the 1.6 give the exact same drop as the Eibachs.

So what does this all mean?

The initial rates on both Vogtland springs is higher than the Eibachs. In my books, this is a good thing as I find the Eibachs a little mushy on smooth surfaces and because of that, the rate quickly climbs on sharp bumps. So IMO, based on these numbers and without having tested a car with Vogtland springs, both Vogtland springs should provide a better ride on rough surfaces. The 1" Vogtland should provide a ride quality very similar to stock while giving you the handling benefits of the drop.

Other factors to keep in mind:
  • Good springs are only 1 part of the equation. Condition and quality of your shocks will also play a big role in ride quality and handling.
  • Polyurethane spring isolators and sway bar bushings will give you better road feel and a tighter steering feel but will transmit some of the irregularities from the road. The density of the poly also varies, so not all are created equal.
  • Larger sway bars will work similar to increasing spring rates without giving you such a harsh ride.

The rule that I like is "as soft as possible and as stiff as necessary". It really depends what your expectations are and what you want to do with the car.

There appears to be allot of interest for these springs. Maybe we should set-up a group buy for our club. What is the procedure?

Hope this helps.

Denis
Here's an additonal review/comparision of the Eibachs vs Vogtland that I found very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFox at SCCOA

December 20, 2009

A few people had asked me about these springs and to comment on the ride.

I got them installed late September and I'm very happy that they performed exactly as expected. Refer to my comparison on page 1 of this thread. They sit exactly 1/2" higher than the Eibachs (which may not seem like much) but the effect on ride quality is significant. As I pointed out earlier, maybe most of the improvement may come from the higher initial spring rate compared to the Eibachs. This provides a much smoother transition when hitting a harsh bump. That low initial rate may also have been responsible for a high speed oscillation on the highway, which is now completely gone. The car doesn't have a slammed look and appears very natural with 17" wheels and low profile 35 and 40 series tires. Obviously when it comes to looks this is entirely a personal thing. I'm running Koni adjustable shocks on all four corners and this is a great combination.

I met a guy at Mosport who was running the 1.6" version on a V8 T-Bird and he was very pleased with them.

These springs may not be that well known in North America but they are a high quality German product.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...=102742&page=2

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. FusionŽ Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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