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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Recommend a paint type for painting springs

So my rear springs are off at the blasters getting cleaned up. I'd like to give them a coat of paint before in install them. Using rattle cans in the drive. No exotic two part epoxies requiring a spray gun please. Simple stuff I can buy at Home Depot or some place.

Some thoughts are Rustouluem rusty metal primer followed by black enamel. Some type of Epoxy based spray paint. One of the paints for painting plastic. I could see epoxy paint as being tougher but cracking and flaking because it's likely to be more rigid. So I could see something like the more flexible plastic paint being a bonus here but not sticking to a non plastic steel spring. Or it may turn out that neither stick any better than several heavy coats of plain old chassis black enamel.

I'm curious what people have used and how it held up. I'm figuring a large can of paint for each spring plus one can of primer. If there's even any advantage to using primer over just spraying them black. It no show car. I just want to protect the springs form the elements. And if I have to hit them again in a year or to while doing the brakes I'm good with that.

Any suggestions are welcome.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 09:31 AM
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The problem with rattle-can in this application is that it simply isn't durable enough. You need some kind of a catalyzed paint. My recommendation would be cheapo rattle can flat black covered with real automotive clearcoat, sprayed out of a gun. If this isn't an option, you would be better off searching on craigslist for someone that can powdercoat them for you. Any kind of rattle-can job will just end up looking like crap inside of a year.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
The problem with rattle-can in this application is that it simply isn't durable enough. You need some kind of a catalyzed paint. My recommendation would be cheapo rattle can flat black covered with real automotive clearcoat, sprayed out of a gun. If this isn't an option, you would be better off searching on craigslist for someone that can powdercoat them for you. Any kind of rattle-can job will just end up looking like crap inside of a year.
I was afraid that was the answer. I was hoping some one would post "Dood'!Plastidip totally like rawks!" Or something like that lol.

Thanks Mike
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 01:51 PM
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Nope, If it was mentioned I'd chime in and say Plastidip sucks ass

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 02:38 PM
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Plastidip is cool, but does not hold up at all well on anything that flexes. Even on rims, if you drive the car hard in the corners, it will start peeling off. I can't imagine it would last more than a week on springs!

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Plastidip is cool, but does not hold up at all well on anything that flexes. Even on rims, if you drive the car hard in the corners, it will start peeling off. I can't imagine it would last more than a week on springs!
I never have used it. I kinda assumed it was a spray version of the old Plastidip tool dip. I think I'll just use some enamel and touch them up in the spring. It's a old set of Moog Cargo Coils. I'll just paint them and wait for a nice set of sport springs to show up. I was just hoping there was something that was better than good old chassis black.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 07:56 PM
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That is exactly what plastidip is! They made it in spray form for a while, it is only recently that people figured out you could temporarily paint a car with it.

As for painting the springs, given your options, I would say your best bet is a coat of rustoleum primer, then get some gloss black 500 degree engine paint, and really lay it on thick, like 5 or 6 coats with 15-20 minutes between coats. That should keep them looking decent for a year or so before it starts fading and pitting and the rust starts coming back.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
That is exactly what plastidip is! They made it in spray form for a while, it is only recently that people figured out you could temporarily paint a car with it.

As for painting the springs, given your options, I would say your best bet is a coat of rustoleum primer, then get some gloss black 500 degree engine paint, and really lay it on thick, like 5 or 6 coats with 15-20 minutes between coats. That should keep them looking decent for a year or so before it starts fading and pitting and the rust starts coming back.
That paint is really tough. They were on my motorcycle wheels when I bought it. My sandblaster had a hell of a time cleaning them up.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 11:03 PM
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Maybe Flex Seal?
It's supposedly more durable than Plasti Dip and the spray goes on thicker.

Or you might try a liquid silicone dip.
Or spray on bedliner, though that might be too brittle.
Or about the least costly option: rubber undercoat.

Pretty much anything you apply yourself will get messed up by road debris eventually, the degree and rapidity of which obviously depends on where you drive, how you drive and how frequently you drive.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 07:53 AM
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If these were Sport coil springs..I would suggest getting them sandblasted, and then powder coated..

IMO..Aftermarket stock replacement coil springs are not worth the extra cost of getting them powder coated..Especially used ones..

A good alternative would be to pickle those old springs..Then apply POR-15 to them..

I find when I pickle the metal..That POR-15 does not flake off like if you were to just brush it on a rusty metal surface..

If you need a step by step home pickling procedure..Just let me know, and I'll do a little write-up for you..






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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
If these were Sport coil springs..I would suggest getting them sandblasted, and then powder coated..

IMO..Aftermarket stock replacement coil springs are not worth the extra cost of getting them powder coated..Especially used ones..

A good alternative would be to pickle those old springs..Then apply POR-15 to them..

I find when I pickle the metal..That POR-15 does not flake off like if you were to just brush it on a rusty metal surface..

If you need a step by step home pickling procedure..Just let me know, and I'll do a little write-up for you..




Rayo..
Rayo you got me there. I have no idea what you mean other than I suspect you are applying some type of chemical to treat the metal. And not they are not worth powder coating. Although they held up surprising well to clevelands last couple of winters. While there was no paint left the springs were in good shape with only minor rust. Hence my me being willing to have them blasted and spray some paint on them I'd like to get some paint on the whole subframe area before winter as some protection and undercoating the inner fenders is on the list. POR15 works damn well. At least on floor pans and sheet metal. I don't know how well it holds up to flexing. It's a great idea but if I'm buying POR15 I can think of a bunch of other places I'd rather use it. It's not cheap last I checked.

I do have a can of the Duro rust converter spray and thought of lightly misting the springs before spraying them. But I have no idea how flexible that is. I only know it needs top coated from a UV protection stand point. I have a couple milk crates of various cans of spray paint some one gave me along with plenty of engine paint from my last project. I did consider using the high temp ceramic engine paint as Mikey suggested just because I assume it's tougher than regular enamel.

I would think PlastiDip would be ideal if it's really a spray version of the old tool dip. Although I'm not sure why you would paint the exterior of the car or the window moulding as I've seen people claim they've done. What about using a adhesion promoter. I have a virtually unused can of the flex primer left over from my door handle caper. It sounds like Plastipdip might be good if the surface prep is good.

I do need the name of a good hobbiest powder coating place in north east ohio. Not for these springs but down the road. I'm also curious what it takes to do it yourself. Besides a powder gun and a big oven

I do appreciate all the suggestions.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Flex seal. Is that the stuff I've heard people mocking where they waterproof a screen door or something? I don't watch TV so there's a lot of stuff I miss. Who knows it might be good for something like this.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 07:38 AM
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Rayo you got me there. I have no idea what you mean other than I suspect you are applying some type of chemical to treat the metal.
Yep..Acid
POR-15 is cheaper than powdercoat, and If applied like I suggested..It holds up very good..So good in fact that it has to be burned off to remove it..

Applying it the traditional way, It always flakes off though..In my experience anyways..

I doubt you're going to find anything cheap that will offer real protection against our harsh Ohio salted roads..






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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Yep..Acid
POR-15 is cheaper than powdercoat, and If applied like I suggested..It holds up very good..So good in fact that it has to be burned off to remove it..

Applying it the traditional way, It always flakes off though..In my experience anyways..

I doubt you're going to find anything cheap that will offer real protection against our harsh Ohio salted roads..


Rayo..
Good point I paid to have them blasted. I guess I could spring for some POR15.

What kind of acid? Oxalic? Muratic? As I recall Navel Jelly is Oxalic Acid. I do have a gallon of Muratic from restoring guitars of all things. You use it to age new nickle parts to match up to old vintage parts.
Who has POR15 retail in ohio? I've seen it somewhere. My neighbor has something called RustBullet he trying to sell me that's left over from his caddy. But it's Silver. Silver springs may be a bit to stylish for me. But I could top coat it black. Supposed to be like POR15 with a rust converter. His sons in the Navy and I guess they use it on ocean going vessels.

I dunno. I'll have a Alumium pumpkin. AL LCAs. Al Drive shaft. Al Spindles. I could do the upper arms in Silver and it would probably look good. Put some manifold paint on the Calipers. Do the subframe and sway bar and springs in black. Might look good.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 12:26 PM
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G I do have a gallon of Muratic from restoring guitars of all things. You use it to age new nickle parts to match up to old vintage parts.
That's why I have my gallon too

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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That's why I have my gallon too
Well you can actually use it to clean driveways or put in a pool I guess but matching up that shiny new lightweight tailpiece or no wire to the hardware that's already on the guitar is a plus.


So Rayo. Will muratic work? What's the drill. Apply to the springs let it sit about ten minutes till they discolor slightly. Flush with water. Let dry then paint? Ill admit I haven't really heard anything about pickling parts befor painting other than I remember PPG or someone used to make a acid etching solution for applying to bare metal before you primed it. I might even have some of that in my hazmat locker. That and some screen door cleaner for aluminium.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 07:20 AM
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Prepping parts for POR-15

Here's a step by step on how I prepare steel parts I plan on painting with POR-15..

If there is any old paint on the parts..It must be removed before following these steps..Sandblasting is the preferred method, but a wire brush/wheel works too..

Get a jug of Muriatic Acid at your local store..Make sure you buy enough to completely immerse whatever parts are going to be painted..

Then place the parts in a plastic tub of Muriatic Acid, and let them soak for at least a half hour..Smaller parts take less time to soak..

After you have soaked them for enough time..They should have a grey color to them..Don't soak them for too long, or there will be nothing left of the part..

Once the parts are done soaking in the Muriatic Acid..Get another plastic container big enough to completely immerse the parts..

The second container should be filled with plain water, and Baking Soda..Mix the Baking Soda thoroughly with the water..Once you've done that..

Then take your parts out of the Muriatic Acid container, and let them soak in the container full of water, and Baking Soda..

This should only take a few minutes..Usually once the part stops bubbling you know that the acid has been neutralized..

Then rinse the parts in boiling water..Water only this time so you can rinse any Baking Soda that might still be on the parts off..

Next lay the parts on a clean surface, and use a heat gun on it's highest setting to completely dry any liquid that may be left on the parts..

Once you're done with that..Lay the parts on a clean surface, and apply the POR-15..

I've used this method successfully many times..

If you use a different paint..I can't guarantee good adhesion..

This is the process I use when painting steel parts with POR-15..


I almost forgot..Use chemical gloves, and a face shield to prevent any acid from splashing on your arms or face..

Be careful with the acid..It can seriously fuk you up!






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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 10:40 AM
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I know somebody mentioned engine enamel but you might also want to consider duplicolor caliper paint as well. I've had great luck with it and is what's currently on my rear springs. Honestly, if the springs aren't anything special I'd just spray them with whatever primer/paint/clear is laying around the garage.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Well I was kinda partial to the idea of using up a bunch of old paint that's been lying around here. I've had good luck with Moog springs over the years. So I don't mind putting a little effort into these. And I'm sure that there will be another MN12 down the road I can swap these into if I upgrade them. If it wasn't for the fact that 4-5 months of the year around here was like driving around in a brine pit I'd just spray them with any old thing and move on.

Rayo. I'm not sure how much Muratic I have left. I do have a 5 gallon poly pail I use for this. It's a genuine Ford pail. So I guess that makes it a rust bucket. is there any reason I cant just put the acid I have in a sprayer bottle and just keep the springs wetted down for 1/2 hour? I'm not sure I want to go buy 5 gallons of acid. Pour it into a bucket. Then attemp to pour it back into the original jugs when I'm done.

Both springs will fit into the bucket I'm sure. How many boxes of baking soda do you think this would require? I'm thinking three to five for the neutralizing solution. I don't have a heat gun. I was thinking I could toss them in the oven on low and listen to my GF rant . Or just let them dry in the sun or okay a torch across them.

I haven't used POR15 in a decade. What's the drying time? About 4-6 hours?

Springs are already blasted. GF is grabbing the POR15 today. The closest retailer was about.....1500 feet ft my front door.

Am I OK just keeping these wetted down with Acid? I'd think so. Keeping in mind they are already blasted. I'd like get the springs in and new sway bar links this weekend. That should quiet the back down significantly. Leaving me with only shocks and possibly sway bar bushings to do later.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 01:39 PM
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Muriatic Acid is cheap..In fact I usually buy a couple jugs of it from Walmart..

If you don't completely immerse your parts in the acid..I don't know what type of results you're going to get..

I do know following my directions word for word makes POR-15 stick to the metal like nothing else..

Don't Inhale the Fumes from the Muriatic Acid

Soak Parts in a Well Ventilated Area

1 large box of baking soda is plenty for this job..

I like to let the POR-15 set overnight to dry..

I will say this..If you deviate from the directions I have given you..I am not responsible if the POR-15 doesn't stick, and flakes off..

Think of this as an alternative to powder coating..If powder coating is not an option where you live..

In fact you can get the POR-15 Rust Preventative coatings in Gloss Black, Semi Gloss Black, Silver, Grey, and Clear..

Then they also have a line of POR-15 Top Coat..Which you can apply directly over the POR-15 Rust Preventative coating..

It comes in Gloss Black, Chassis Black, Silver, Clear, Gloss White, Safety Red, Safety Orange, Safety Yellow, Safety Blue, Safety Green, and Primer Grey..

I realize the other paints are probably not something you are interested in, but I wanted others to see there's a lot of color options available..

POR-15 Rust Preventative coatings are not UV resistant..

So if the paint is going to be on a part that is exposed to the sun I'd recommend using a top coat after applying the Rust Preventative coating..





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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Muriatic Acid is cheap..In fact I usually buy a couple jugs of it from Walmart..

If you don't completely immerse your parts in the acid..I don't know what type of results you're going to get..

I do know following my directions word for word makes POR-15 stick to the metal like nothing else..

Don't Inhale the Fumes from the Muriatic Acid

Soak Parts in a Well Ventilated Area

1 large box of baking soda is plenty for this job..

I like to let the POR-15 set overnight to dry..

I will say this..If you deviate from the directions I have given you..I am not responsible if the POR-15 doesn't stick, and flakes off..

Think of this as an alternative to powder coating..If powder coating is not an option where you live..

In fact you can get the POR-15 Rust Preventative coatings in Gloss Black, Semi Gloss Black, Silver, Grey, and Clear..

Then they also have a line of POR-15 Top Coat..Which you can apply directly over the POR-15 Rust Preventative coating..

It comes in Gloss Black, Chassis Black, Silver, Clear, Gloss White, Safety Red, Safety Orange, Safety Yellow, Safety Blue, Safety Green, and Primer Grey..

I realize the other paints are probably not something you are interested in, but I wanted others to see there's a lot of color options available..

POR-15 Rust Preventative coatings are not UV resistant..

So if the paint is going to be on a part that is exposed to the sun I'd recommend using a top coat after applying the Rust Preventative coating..





Rayo..
I'm stoping by Home Depit go some Acid. I can garrenty my Walmart will be out. Because it sukz. I'm not holding anyone responsible. Just looking to get better results than paint. I'm thinking of the small boxes ala refrigerator size. These are going to be under the car. Is top coating truly needed? They are out of direct sun. Obviously. Top coating with regular paint is out?

So what's going on here from a chemistry stand point. Is this just cleaning of any remaining rust or chemically treating the surface? Besides acting as a etchant?
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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One large box of baking soda and one gallon of acid from Walmart. Cuz they didn't have any more than one jug. But..... They did get the MerconV in that they have been out of for the last 4-5 months. Got the rest of the Acid at HomeDepot. Should be good to go.

No mention of the Por15 manifold paint
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 07:02 PM
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So what's going on here from a chemistry stand point. Is this just cleaning of any remaining rust or chemically treating the surface? Besides acting as a etchant?
Honestly, I couldn't tell you..I'm not a chemist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn..

In all seriousness though..

It works, and I suspect it has something to do with getting the metal clean deep down in its pores..Perhaps also etching the metal in the process..

If you've ever looked at a piece of rusty metal that has been sandblasted..To the naked eye it appears to be free of all rust..

But if you look at that same piece of metal under the microscope you would see there is still rust in the pits or pores of the metal..

An acid bath removes everything the sandblasting, or wire brush didn't..






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