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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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K Member Modification

I have the K member dropped. The plan is to cut away the parts that interfere with the new oil pan and the driver's side header.

While I'm at it, does it make sense to go ahead and weld up the seams that aren't totally welded? Would it harm anything to do that?

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 12:56 PM
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It wouldn't harm anything, but I doubt it would make any noticeable difference. I think that time would be better spent making bracing to go from the LCA to the front strut rod mounting area, and from the subframe to the frame rail. Doing that bracing on the lemons car made a HUGE improvement in handling.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
It wouldn't harm anything, but I doubt it would make any noticeable difference. I think that time would be better spent making bracing to go from the LCA to the front strut rod mounting area, and from the subframe to the frame rail. Doing that bracing on the lemons car made a HUGE improvement in handling.
Tell me more about that. Where would I put that bracing. A bolt on thing isn't really necessary since this is going to be a full time track car unless it is necessary to make it removable to get to other stuff.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 01:33 PM
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The goal is to brace the lower control arm mounting area to where the strut rod attaches to the subframe to prevent that strut rod mount area from deflecting under load, and then also brace the subframe to the frame rail at the bottom, since with it only attached at the top, you can have deflection in the subframe itself, which can change the alignment angles under load, and especially under braking. On the lemons car, I used 1" square tubing since it only has to box everything in and roll bar tubing would be way overkill, and I just welded everything in solid. Doing it that way, you can still remove and install everything except the subframe itself, or the rack. I figured both of those things are so rarely changed that if you do need to remove them, you can just cut through the tubing and re-do it, and actually the rack could be changed without cutting it if you removed the inner tie rods first, but it literally took me less than an hour to measure, cut, and weld all 4 pieces, and I think the 1" square tubing was under $20 at home depot.

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
The goal is to brace the lower control arm mounting area to where the strut rod attaches to the subframe to prevent that strut rod mount area from deflecting under load, and then also brace the subframe to the frame rail at the bottom, since with it only attached at the top, you can have deflection in the subframe itself, which can change the alignment angles under load, and especially under braking. On the lemons car, I used 1" square tubing since it only has to box everything in and roll bar tubing would be way overkill, and I just welded everything in solid. Doing it that way, you can still remove and install everything except the subframe itself, or the rack. I figured both of those things are so rarely changed that if you do need to remove them, you can just cut through the tubing and re-do it, and actually the rack could be changed without cutting it if you removed the inner tie rods first, but it literally took me less than an hour to measure, cut, and weld all 4 pieces, and I think the 1" square tubing was under $20 at home depot.
You don't happen to have any pictures do you?

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 10:44 AM
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Yep, that does it. The connectors from the K member to the frame rails are going to pose a bigger challenge because of my headers but I'll figure that out once I get the car back together.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
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-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
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Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 12:11 PM
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Actually on the lemons car, I am running the same headers as you, and there are no clearance issues between the headers and the bracing.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Actually on the lemons car, I am running the same headers as you, and there are no clearance issues between the headers and the bracing.
Well, I'm really talking about attaching the supports to the frame rails since the collectors are in the way if I have to drill any holes.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
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-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 01:28 PM
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Oh yes, I didn't do any of that, so you may need to remove or at least loosen and move the headers.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yes, I didn't do any of that, so you may need to remove or at least loosen and move the headers.
I would rather remove several of my molars.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
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-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
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Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 01:40 PM
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LOL! Then in that case, forget the bolts and just weld the bars directly to the subframe and the frame rail, and you should have no problem doing that with the headers in place.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
LOL! Then in that case, forget the bolts and just weld the bars directly to the subframe and the frame rail, and you should have no problem doing that with the headers in place.
Well, I could weld some tabs on the frame rails with bolt holes in them using 1/4" stock then bolt the tubes to that. The original owner of my car had the stupid undercoating stuff on the car so I have to grind that down to get to bare metal.

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-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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I finished cutting out the back of the K member today. As much as I want my pneumatic cut off wheel to work well it just can't compare to a cut off wheel on my Dewalt angle grinder.

I've marked the lines in yellow where I plan to weld in plate. I marked red lines where I'm considering removing more material with orange lines where I would add gussets if I removed that material. Any thoughts on where else I would want to reinforce it?
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 07:06 PM
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I'm late to this thread, but here are a couple pics of the bracing I made for my XR7. Hopefully it'll help.




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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2015, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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I'm late to this thread, but here are a couple pics of the bracing I made for my XR7. Hopefully it'll help.



I like that design. I'll probably copy it.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
I finished cutting out the back of the K member today. As much as I want my pneumatic cut off wheel to work well it just can't compare to a cut off wheel on my Dewalt angle grinder.

I've marked the lines in yellow where I plan to weld in plate. I marked red lines where I'm considering removing more material with orange lines where I would add gussets if I removed that material. Any thoughts on where else I would want to reinforce it?
I notched my kmember and welded plates in as gussets so it could fit a 7qt extra deep oil pan on my lemons car. It was very similar to yours.

The only thing that scared me slightly was that with the 7qt oil pan installed, the lowest thing was actually my oilpan.

Had I kept the 7qt oil pan, I would have welded a footlong chunk of metal (maybe a 1/2" or 1" square tubing) transversely to the underside of the subframe to have something else hit/deflect track debris -- it's lemons after all -- instead of my oil pan.

I never installed this transverse piece though because I eventually went back to the 5qt pan because installation of the 7qt pan required that drop the subframe slightly and that slowed down trackday engine swaps).

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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I notched my kmember and welded plates in as gussets so it could fit a 7qt extra deep oil pan on my lemons car. It was very similar to yours.

The only thing that scared me slightly was that with the 7qt oil pan installed, the lowest thing was actually my oilpan.

Had I kept the 7qt oil pan, I would have welded a footlong chunk of metal (maybe a 1/2" or 1" square tubing) transversely to the underside of the subframe to have something else hit/deflect track debris -- it's lemons after all -- instead of my oil pan.

I never installed this transverse piece though because I eventually went back to the 5qt pan because installation of the 7qt pan required that drop the subframe slightly and that slowed down trackday engine swaps).
Is there a reason you didn't go with the T shaped 7 qt pan? That's the reason I'm gutting the K member. The deep pan sits too low so I plan to use the T shaped pan with the baffles in it.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Is there a reason you didn't go with the T shaped 7 qt pan? That's the reason I'm gutting the K member. The deep pan sits too low so I plan to use the T shaped pan with the baffles in it.
You already have the pan? I think I have another custom-made Mark VIII oil pan that holds 7 qts with no modifications to the k-member. Just like the one Grog bought from me.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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You already have the pan? I think I have another custom-made Mark VIII oil pan that holds 7 qts with no modifications to the k-member. Just like the one Grog bought from me.
Well, if I had a MK8 then that might prove useful.

When I put the 347 in the car all of those years ago I tried to use a bigger pan but it would have required a modification to the K member to get clearance and I just didn't have the know how or general skill to do that so I didn't do it. I'm older (and wiser?) and know how to do it now so that's why I'm revisiting it.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 05:20 PM
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Is there a reason you didn't go with the T shaped 7 qt pan? That's the reason I'm gutting the K member. The deep pan sits too low so I plan to use the T shaped pan with the baffles in it.
I didn't go with a tshaped pan because I was worried about clearance issues between the starter motor on one side and the exhaust downpipe on the other. I didn't think I could go that wide without getting into trouble there.

Mine came from eBay and ran $120 with a pickup. Ended up selling it off locally for $75 (kinda sucked but whatever).

Here's a pic of how it sat after installation from underneath . Please keep in mind though that my engine sits slightly lower than stock b/c I use two hockey pucks for engine mounts vs. the original rubber bits. It just barely sticks out below the bottom lip and that scared me. Raising the engine a hair would have been a good way to protect it though.




The absolute cheapest way is to do it yourself with two of these kits and a welder. I briefly considered this option but the 7qt deal for $120 delivered was too good a deal to not try.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't go with a tshaped pan because I was worried about clearance issues between the starter motor on one side and the exhaust downpipe on the other. I didn't think I could go that wide without getting into trouble there.

Mine came from eBay and ran $120 with a pickup. Ended up selling it off locally for $75 (kinda sucked but whatever).

Here's a pic of how it sat after installation from underneath . Please keep in mind though that my engine sits slightly lower than stock b/c I use two hockey pucks for engine mounts vs. the original rubber bits. It just barely sticks out below the bottom lip and that scared me. Raising the engine a hair would have been a good way to protect it though.




The absolute cheapest way is to do it yourself with two of these kits and a welder. I briefly considered this option but the 7qt deal for $120 delivered was too good a deal to not try.
Small Block Chevy Claimer Oil Pan Kit
I'm afraid of the deep pan for the same reason. I guess I'll find out about the starter motor. I had not considered that but I'll figure that out too.

I'm not too interested in a DIY kit because I have a lot of opportunity to do that wrong.

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"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-18-2015, 08:26 PM
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t pan



I have a t-pan, starter clears my pan fine.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Well, for better or worse, it's done. The welds weren't the cleanest but since it's some tight space, funky angles and rough material they will serve. That's why I have a grinder.

Now I just have to hope that my oil pan clears my headers. I'm waiting on a new gasket so I'll see when I get it. BFH may have to be deployed.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Well, for better or worse, it's done. The welds weren't the cleanest but since it's some tight space, funky angles and rough material they will serve. That's why I have a grinder.

Now I just have to hope that my oil pan clears my headers. I'm waiting on a new gasket so I'll see when I get it. BFH may have to be deployed.
Definitely some funky angles. That's why I have no less than 8-10 grinders for "shaping" weld beads. From 7" air grinders down to 2", to 3/8" wide hand-held belt sander to carbide burrs to grinding stones, etc.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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The K member is ready to go. According to Canton the pan is due back from the plating company tomorrow. Here are a few pics to tide you over.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KMember003.jpg (1.21 MB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg OilPanModded01.JPG (4.12 MB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg OilPanModded02.JPG (3.94 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg OilPanModded03.JPG (3.83 MB, 3 views)

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 10:45 PM
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I hope the TIG weldor wore the proper PPE before TIG welding over that zinc-plated steel that he obviously didn't grind the zinc off prior to welding. If he didn't he has a death wish.

Last edited by guitar maestro; 12-18-2015 at 08:42 PM.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
I hope the TIG weldor wore the proper PPE before TIG welding over that zinc-plated steel that he obviously didn't grind the zinc off prior to welding. If he didn't he has a death wish.
Your extensive knowledge of welding makes me grin.

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Last edited by guitar maestro; 12-18-2015 at 08:42 PM. Reason: fixed my spelling lol
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
I hope the TIG weldor wore the proper PPE before TIG welding over that zinc-plated steel that he obviously didn't grind the zinc off prior to welding. If he didn't he has a death wish.
I would hope so. Canton makes a lot of these and they did the work so I imagine that this isn't their first rodeo.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U


Last edited by guitar maestro; 12-18-2015 at 08:43 PM. Reason: fixed my spelling
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2016, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Pictures!!!

OK, it's all back together. See the pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20160103_153926.jpg (1.26 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20160103_153834.jpg (3.47 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20160103_153820.jpg (3.68 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20160103_153749.jpg (3.54 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20160103_153851.jpg (3.36 MB, 2 views)

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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