My Second Mod: Suspension Rebuild - Page 3 - TCCoA Forums
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post #61 of 174 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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So I did a thing just now.

I got this first instead of the Cobra Bilstein insert mod from MaddMartigan because of these bushings are now near unobtainium.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YEe9VreCyFCgqXeJ8

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'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts

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post #62 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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Should have updated earlier. My order came in on Tuesday!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aVJBsvEGjcuoZqEc9

For now, I've put them in my growing pile of boxes full of parts. My next big purchase will be the front Cobra Bilsteins so I can send off to @MaddMartigan .

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

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post #63 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
Should have updated earlier. My order came in on Tuesday!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aVJBsvEGjcuoZqEc9

For now, I've put them in my growing pile of boxes full of parts. My next big purchase will be the front Cobra Bilsteins so I can send off to @MaddMartigan .

I just Reread that thread; I thought they were Mitsubishi 3000 GT Bilsteins?

Deese:



https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...8&autoModClar=

I could be wrong.

The Cobra ones are for the rear, IIRC. (IRS-type Cobra Convertible was the stiffest? It's in the sticky.)


EDIT: Damn, guys; Here's what we need:



https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...8&autoModClar=

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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Last edited by Grog6; 09-07-2018 at 08:09 PM.
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post #64 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Yea, those are the Bilsteins, PN# 34-050224. I guess they not for the Cobras but in fact for Mitsubishi! For the longest time I thought that it was for the Cobras, LOL. I just had part numbers on those Bilsteins and didn't know they actually came from a Mitsubishi. IDK / IDC. As long as it's what has been known to work and are better than some soft OEM replacement is all I care about . I know once this is done, I won't have to worry about it for a long time, hopefully another 20yrs, LOL.

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

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post #65 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 09:05 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Yea, those are the Bilsteins, PN# 34-050224. I guess they not for the Cobras but in fact for Mitsubishi! For the longest time I thought that it was for the Cobras, LOL. I just had part numbers on those Bilsteins and didn't know they actually came from a Mitsubishi. IDK / IDC. As long as it's what has been known to work and are better than some soft OEM replacement is all I care about . I know once this is done, I won't have to worry about it for a long time, hopefully another 20yrs, LOL.
I end up adjusting the rear Konis every year, spring and fall. It's probably because the rear end is so light on my car.

There are Rear Mustang Konis still available, and I may go that way for the adjustability.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #66 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Will I be needing this for my front end?

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5465-In...eywords=SM5465

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #67 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 07:01 PM
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Will I be needing this for my front end?

https://www.amazon.com/KYB-SM5465-In...eywords=SM5465
If you care about NVH, sure, why not. Its cheap enough. It will eliminate any noises from the spring moving against the bottom perch BUT with the weight of the car and the nut on top, the spring will always be under some form of tension.
You can always reuse the old ones OR even just make your own separator with some rubber inner tube material and a knife.

It's by no means necessary; my car doesn't have them but then again, I don't care about NVH at all.
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post #68 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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I've already got the Vogtlands in a box (have had them for some time already), but I don't remember if they come with a set or not. I would prefer no noise at all. Hearing it all rattle even though it would all be nice and tight would just drive me bonkers.

Would I need a set for top and bottom (4 total) or are these for just the bottom of the spring (2 total)?

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #69 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 07:29 PM
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Would I need a set for top and bottom (4 total) or are these for just the bottom of the spring (2 total)?
Those are just for the bottom. The top has the strut mount.

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post #70 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 10:05 PM
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At $2, I'd get them.

That funky step tears if you make your own, and looks crappy.

They'll last 20 more years.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #71 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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I've updated my list. Getting closer!

The big ticket items are those front Bilstein inserts followed by the rear Bilstein shocks for the absolute musts. The rear ADDCO bar can be swung out (pun intended) and sub in just the sway bar bushings. But I want to do it right the first time on this project!
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'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #72 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 02:48 PM
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I haven't done the front ones yet, but the back ones are easy if you wet the bar.

I was thinking WD, but the old school neighbor said water, and it works great.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #73 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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If you wet the bar? Like seriously, get it wet with water?

Do you get rust where you're at @Grog6 ? If so, would that be a factor in replacing the sway bar bushings in that manner?

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #74 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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One step closer!

Looking through my list though, I do have a concern with my front end links. I've read in other threads that the end links have to be the correct size in order to allow proper articulation of the sway bar. I'd imagine this applies to both front and rear. The rears are not a concern in terms of size as they are the correct size for the 1.6" drop my Vogtlands will be offering. My concern is that whatever stock sized front end links will not work for my suspension application. If the ACDelco 45G0216 units I have pre-selected don't work on a lowered setup, what will?
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'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #75 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 06:45 PM
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I have tokicos on Lazarus, and the drop witht he purple springs are about 1.5"

I don't have any issues from that, the car handles as well as Lazarus with the konis and sports.

Ideally you want the "resting" position to be horizontal; that is not achievable easily in the front.

Shorter rear connectors seem to be available, but I haven't seen any in the front.

I used the ACDelco units, which used to be Raybestos, because they have zerk fittings on both ends.

The biggest bitch with the drop is that I have to pull up on the car, to get the freaking jack under it.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #76 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 07:51 PM
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The front endlinks don’t matter when lowered, they are ball joint designs with plenty of room for articulation. The rears need to be level because they use bushings on both ends, and if the bar isn’t parallel with the ground the bushings will bind under suspension travel since they’d already loaded up at rest. The stock rear endlink design actually solves this by having a pivot at the bar, it doesn’t matter if the bar is level or not with those.

-Matt
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post #77 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 08:12 PM
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The front endlinks don’t matter when lowered, they are ball joint designs with plenty of room for articulation. The rears need to be level because they use bushings on both ends, and if the bar isn’t parallel with the ground the bushings will bind under suspension travel since they’d already loaded up at rest. The stock rear endlink design actually solves this by having a pivot at the bar, it doesn’t matter if the bar is level or not with those.
That's what I was trying to think of; I remember arguing this with Tobey, lol.

I found that taking a piece of the urethane bushings you can buy at Advanced fit in the hole in the stock endlinks, when the rubber disappears.

It's actually better than stock.

The rears bind when you jack it up if you're not careful with the aftermarket connectors, the stock ones pivot a bunch.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #78 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 08:28 PM
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Yeah I did that with my stock ones, I haphazardly bought an ES endlink kit from autozone without doing any research or measuring and ended up “making” the poly bushings fit the stock link hardware. They worked fantastically and even looked nice. I gave them away to a local member when I went to the ADDCO bar, which they unfortunately don’t work on.
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post #79 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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You guys are contradicting each other! It doesn't help me!!! LOL

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #80 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 11:54 AM
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I think we were on the same page; Front links==fine, rear links refurb with poly or shorter if you use a addco bar.

If your rear links are perfect, use them. At 20 years old, I had empty holes at the top, and nothing at the bottom but metal.

THere's supposed to be rubber both places.

The stock rear/bar combo pivots, the addco bar is different.

Sorry about being confusing.

If the swaybar is at a big angle, it doesn't work as well, it's supposed to be level to the ground.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #81 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:20 PM
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Right, just for clarity:

-With the ADDCO rear bar you need aftermarket endlinks, therefore the bar needs to be level with the ground.

-With the stock rear bar with stock pivoting endlinks, the bar does not need to be level with the ground.

-Matt

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post #82 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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I think we were on the same page; [b]Front links==fine[b], rear links refurb with poly or shorter if you use a addco bar.
Perfect, this is what I needed to know specifically. I wasn't sure if the fronts needed shorter end links or not like the rear does.

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If your rear links are perfect, use them. At 20 years old, I had empty holes at the top, and nothing at the bottom but metal.

THere's supposed to be rubber [in] both places.

The stock rear/bar combo pivots, the addco bar is different.

Sorry about being confusing.

If the swaybar is at a big angle, it doesn't work as well, it's supposed to be level to the ground.
Speaking of the ADDCO bar being different, over on the TCCOA FB page, someone brought up this point (I asked this same question over there), and they brought up a point about not raising the rear end of the car up off the ground because it'll bend or break the end links. What's that all about?

Like, how is one supposed to do any sort of rear end work if that's the case? I wasn't even aware of that until I read that post earlier.

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Right, just for clarity:

-With the ADDCO rear bar you need aftermarket endlinks, therefore the bar needs to be level with the ground.

-With the stock rear bar with stock pivoting endlinks, the bar does not need to be level with the ground.
My question is more about the front end links, not the rear end links. These last few posts of discussion though seems to make it clear that the front end links don't matter and I can just get OEM / OEM spec end links.

I already knew about needing shorter end links in the rear, but have not heard, until now, about unable to lift the rear of the car up off the ground.
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'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
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post #83 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 01:08 PM
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Fronts don’t matter for the same reason STOCK rears don’t matter, that’s how they got factored into the discussion.


You can lift the rear of the car off the ground with aftermarket endlinks but they can bend in doing so since the angle of the bar and control arms will be so extreme, especially with hard urethane bushings. That’s the reason for the pivots in the stock endlinks, there is no bind at full suspension travel. You can disconnect them with the car on the ground before you jack it up, or just say fuck it like I do most of the time - I have bent them, but never outright broken one.

You need have the car on the ground when installing and tightening them.

-Matt
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Fronts don’t matter for the same reason STOCK rears don’t matter, that’s how they got factored into the discussion.
I plan to Auto-X the car when this and the MT swap are done. Does this change anything in relation to front stock vs front shorter aftermarket end links? Additionally I do lots of "spirited driving" already as it is. IE, the speed posted just prior to curve(s) are a "suggested speed limit" type driving.

You guys are saying no, that OEM spec front end links don't matter, but with that in mind, does that still change things in relation to the needs of the front end links?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
You can lift the rear of the car off the ground with aftermarket endlinks but they can bend in doing so since the angle of the bar and control arms will be so extreme, especially with hard urethane bushings. That’s the reason for the pivots in the stock endlinks, there is no bind at full suspension travel. You can disconnect them with the car on the ground before you jack it up, or just say fuck it like I do most of the time - I have bent them, but never outright broken one.

You need have the car on the ground when installing and tightening them.
Without a drive up lift, how in the flying fuck is one supposed to tighten up all these nuts and bolts with all wheels on the ground? I was originally thinking driving up a set of ramps and then lifting up the other end of the car onto another set of ramps to make final adjustments, but that seems like a negative rubber ducky now.

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post #85 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 03:05 PM
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The front endlinks do not care about the position of the bar to operate properly, like we’ve been trying to tell you. The sway bar geometry is independent of the actual suspension geometry, all it needs to do is connect the two axles and have a rigid body mount. When people tell you that the rear bar needs to be parallel to the ground it is ONLY because of the aftermarket endlink bushings, not geometry. To put it into perspective you could run the sway bars up side down if it were possible, and it would have zero adverse effects on suspension performance.


The rear endlinks are easily accessed with the car on the ground, there’s room to reach them under the rear bumper

-Matt
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post #86 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 04:40 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
...The sway bar geometry is independent of the actual suspension geometry, all it needs to do is connect the two axles and have a rigid body mount. When people tell you that the rear bar needs to be parallel to the ground it is ONLY because of the aftermarket endlink bushings, not geometry.
I hate to be pedantic, but the transfer of weight from one side to the other is moderated by the angle of the endlink and swaybar; at 90 degrees, transfer is 100%, as it approaches 0 degrees it's zero.

Pedantic, but math.

edit: that means the sway bar effect decreases with angle.
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Last edited by Grog6; 10-07-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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post #87 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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So you guys are saying it doesn't matter (and I got that message loud and clear), but David Dalke (what's his username here?....or is he on SCCOA?) says otherwise and the front end links should be shorter as well.

To me, you are all guys that have a plethora amount of knowledge on this platform, but when subject matter experts disagree on a specific subject area of the topic at hand, it leaves novices like myself either lost or asking more / redundant questions. Attached is a screenshot of some of the conversation with David Dalke and his input on the matter. Not sure which of you guys are on FB to chime in on the subject....if you're so willing.

For now though, I'll go with the "it doesn't matter and OEM / OEM spec length sway bar links will work" approach. However, that doesn't mean that I won't have the "Can my front end suspension perform better with shorter end links" thought in the back of my head. Guess I'll know if it does or doesn't break at the track or around a corner whilst driving.

EDIT: Attached image doesn't work well....be sure to zoom in on the below link.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PwQRa7bajkjbmJbu7
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File Type: jpg David Dalke.jpg (341.2 KB, 10 views)

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post #88 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 05:59 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Dave is an expert. I'd rank him barely below DLF, or Duffy Floyd.

And he knew and worked with both of them. (Duffy was still with us, last I checked. )

I have not yet read his post, but I'll bet it follows what I posted above.

At a proper angle, maximum force is transmitted; the object of the bar is to transfer force to the opposite wheel, to keep it on the ground.

More force is more better; If you had an external rocket engine that could supply an unlimited force, your wheels would never slip, and no swaybar would be required.

This would cause other problems, so this is not a popular solution.

EDIT: I read what he said, and he is absolutely correct.

If you are doing a street car, where you don't hit the limits of your suspension, it's all going to be ok.

If you're racing, you want every bit; so I'd cut and splice.

I said level with the ground; His statement of Middle point of travel is a better way to say that.

Thanks for the post; I don't do facebook because of all the data collection.

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Last edited by Grog6; 10-07-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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post #89 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 06:07 PM
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I don’t do Facebook.

Here’s the thing, the sway bar levers being parallel to the ground with lowering springs actually moves them from the midpoint of suspension travel, travel limits are unaltered with lowering springs and all suspension geometry is designed around stock ride height. Mildly unideal but you’re not going to lose lap times over it, you’re compromising no matter what.

Make the rear level so it doesn’t bind, forget about the fronts. You’re not going to get anywhere near the tipping point where they lose effectiveness.
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Last edited by XR7-4.6; 10-07-2018 at 06:15 PM.
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post #90 of 174 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 06:16 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
...
Make the rear level so it doesn’t bind, forget about the fronts. You’re not going to get anywhere near the tipping point where they lose effectiveness.
I agree, the difference is maybe 1%; save it to when you're competitive in the circuit you're racing.

Then, the small amount may make a difference.

If it's easy for you to get them modified, go for it.

If not, it's not worth it.

I wouldn't pay $50 for perfection, in this spot.


But I don't race.

For the math challenged, it's an exponential relationship as you leave a 90 degree angle, from 100% to 0%.
Edit: jesus, I sound like a asshole being pedantic.

Edit 2: Even More more fucking pedantic: you have to be at an ~66 degree angle to decrease by 1/5 the force; at a 45 it's 50%, and at 20 degrees it's terrible.

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Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 10-07-2018 at 06:46 PM.
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