Why do I need shorter S-bar links? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Why do I need shorter S-bar links?

OK, my usual foreword: yes, I did try the search function to find an answer but came up empty...

My SC's been lowered 1.6" (Vogtland springs) and I've read the recommendation (i.e., "need"?) of replacing the rear S-bar links to "restore the original S-bar geometry." But I want more info before I tear into it.

A little trolling here: Grog6 advised me on a separate (but unrelated) thread that I need to go with shorter links and that something binds if the car is not jacked properly. I have no reason to doubt his advice but why is that? Independent of anything else, does the S-bar really care what position the outer ends are in? And I notice, from looking at the rear that the S-bar is above the E-brake cable. Is that relationship important or critical if I install shorter links?

As always, thanks for any help or advice!!!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 11:35 AM
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If you have the stock bar with the stock style links with the top pivot they will physically work *ok*, but it won’t be optimal. Looking from the side the bar should be parallel to the ground, the sides of the bar are what provide the mechanical leverage to twist/push down on the opposite tire, and in the neutral/parallel to the ground position the leverage is at its greatest(the bar is effectively shortened if angled).

With aftermarket links they don’t use a top pivot, they use the same bushings on both ends, and if the bar is angled up due to incorrect lengths at rest the bushings will bind and prematurely fail or bend during normal driving. Jacking is a slight issue with this link design regardless of correct height or not. If you plan to have the car up on jackstands for longer than a day you should disconnect the links beforehand to avoid deforming the urethane or bending the bolts.

-Matt
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 02:23 PM
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My old Tbird was lowered 8 inches on stock sway bar endlinks .. they went through the whole range of suspension travel. The only time the bar is completely flat is when the car is on level ground .. otherwise the bar constantly in flux with road conditions. I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you had a beefier sway bar.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 04:17 PM
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You could go with these, I'm thinking about them.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodeo Joe View Post
You could go with these, I'm thinking about them.

Joe
Not to denigrate a MN12 proprietor, but unlike the SR sleeves I have a really hard time seeing the value in the rear links being stainless other than for bling bling factor. My factory links were damn near rust free when I replaced them with the Addco stuff, which I cannot say for numerous other IRS components on my car.

-Matt
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Not to denigrate a MN12 proprietor, but unlike the SR sleeves I have a really hard time seeing the value in the rear links being stainless other than for bling bling factor. My factory links were damn near rust free when I replaced them with the Addco stuff, which I cannot say for numerous other IRS components on my car.
It'd be hard to justify the price on cold rolled; and the machining costs are almost identical for stainless as cold rolled steel.

So it's easier to sell them at the "I can make a living at this!" rate for stainless.

But yah, bling is about it.

(This is from a guy who had his spindles powder coated, now ... )

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
With aftermarket links they don’t use a top pivot, they use the same bushings on both ends, and if the bar is angled up due to incorrect lengths at rest the bushings will bind and prematurely fail or bend during normal driving. Jacking is a slight issue with this link design regardless of correct height or not. If you plan to have the car up on jackstands for longer than a day you should disconnect the links beforehand to avoid deforming the urethane or bending the bolts.
I should probably check on mine then. I have had Energy Suspension poly links on my Cougar for a few years now. Is it better to just run the stock style links?

Was hoping to firm thing up a bit, so I installed them and the aftermarket poly sway bar bushing/bracket at the same time.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenz View Post
I should probably check on mine then. I have had Energy Suspension poly links on my Cougar for a few years now. Is it better to just run the stock style links?

Was hoping to firm thing up a bit, so I installed them and the aftermarket poly sway bar bushing/bracket at the same time.
With a stock bar you can definitely go back to the originals if you held onto them. You can even reuse the poly bushings on the LCA side and still have the added stiffness, in my originals I went even further and cut down some poly to fit into the top pivots as well.

But rest assured, my energy suspension links/bushings are probably 10 years old at this point and other than the pretty zinc coating on the sleeves and cups oxidized away to a dull grey they’re still in good condition. Just take precaution and get in the habit of disconnecting them before you lift the rear end off the ground (i can’t imagine you’re doing it that often! ) and they’ll last forever.

-Matt
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Great discussion - many good points and suggestions. I think I'm going to go "the blended approach": leave the hardware factory/as-is but retrofit aftermarket urethane stuff.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 03:02 PM
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There are 'universal' type urethane parts at Advanced for use doing swaybar links; I cut the down to fit the top loop, and used the others for the bottom.

I think I spent $10...

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:03 PM
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I don't understand how the circular end of those TBSC links attach. My 1.25" ADDCO rear bar has flat flanges where the link goes through. What am I missing?

MikeB
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
I don't understand how the circular end of those TBSC links attach. My 1.25" ADDCO rear bar has flat flanges where the link goes through. What am I missing?
The stock bar has small brackets that attach to those round ends(which contain bushings), here’s a pic of the stock endlink assemblies with the brackets still attached.



The stock bar isn’t much different from the Addco except the added thickness of the flange, the deeper recesses for the bushings and the lack of provisions for the bracket locator tabs at the ends

-Matt
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:55 PM
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I've been using the stock set up with the Addco bar for a few years now and haven't had any problems........yet!

Joe

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