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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-12-2004, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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1 1/4 sway bar install problems addco

well first off it wont work with the spacers, it will scrub the car so they are not getting installed. But also the bottom of the sway bar hits the lower control arm, whats the fix, shorter end links? or grind the corner round on the end of the sway bar? also the motor is out this is the front sway bar need help quickly as possible thanks guys also its a 94 tbird 4.6 thanks

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-12-2004, 09:53 PM
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I'm running one of the spacers with my 1 3/8 bar. I did have to notch the area above the bar so that the bar didn't hit anything above it though.

Never heard of anyone having any problems with the bar hitting the lower control arm? I even have the bigger bar and a dropped car and I don't believe I am even close to having a clearance problem there

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-14-2004, 10:07 PM
 
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well, we ended up using one of the spacers, so that we wouldn't have to grind too much off the rings that keep the swaybar in position without having to notch/bend any part of the area above the bar. we also ground a good amount of the ends of the bar that attach to the endlinks, the bottom of that so that it wouldn't hit the control arm. the ends of the bar are (where the hole are) pretty fat, fatter than the bar itself and that was causing a problem, so now it is rounded like the stock bar. its kind of hard to explain and the camera battery was dead. all in all, i am not that happy with the fitment issues and having to modify it to make it work. hopefully having to take the bar in and out more than several times will pay off.

my impression was that this would pretty much bolt in with out modification.

i only wonder if i will have to grind out my oil filter when i want to change it.

thank you,
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-14-2004, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertP
But also the bottom of the sway bar hits the lower control arm, whats the fix, shorter end links?
I'm actually having the same issue with the 90 XR7 that I'm putting together. I have one spacer per side under the sway bar, as opposed to the two per side that came with the kit. I haven't really spent any time working on it, since there is so much more to finish on the car besides that. However, the last time I looked at it I considered making a pair of shorter front end links.

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-14-2004, 11:46 PM
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I'd like to see if QA1 has something better to replace the front sway bar end links. I have a stock one out and ready to match up as I am looking into this right now.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-14-2004, 11:59 PM
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If you do come across someone that does sell shorter front end links, please let me know. It would save me a fair amount of hassle, and I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Rod

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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 06:40 AM
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Could someone please post some clear pics of the problems. Maybe something has changed with the bars. The ends maybe flattened more than the used to be. The investigation begins...

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 06:58 AM
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I'm glad someone is posting this since I'm within an inch of dropping my front suspension.

Here's a thought and what I had planned on doing with the front-end links. Since I'll have the Eibachs, I figured the end links would be too long. What I had planned on doing was cutting them in half, removing some metal from the rods, threading both ends (left and right hand) and installing a "turnbuckle" between them. That's not the right word, but what I'm saying is that the end links would be adjustable and could be adjusted to the correct length.

After everything is adjusted and there are no clearance problems, they could be welded or jam nuts installed.

Again, this was just my thought since the fronts have such a weird connection method. The only other thing I can think of is to use spherical rod ends and fabricate the whole link.

I agree that some photos would help a lot!

Any other thoughts.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 07:14 AM
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No, You do not need to shorten the front endlinks. The way the kit is put together it puts everything in the proper place.

Mark

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark M. TCCoA VP
No, You do not need to shorten the front endlinks. The way the kit is put together it puts everything in the proper place.
How is that possible?

They don’t come with any end links and there is no different sway bar for a lowered or non-lowered car.

I’m not saying that you “have to” shorten them, but rather they “should” be shortened “to keep the sway bar in the OEM position in relation to the front suspension”.

To keep the sway bar in the proper horizontal position (or OEM position), wouldn't you have to shorten the end links if you have a lowered car? Everything I’ve read about sway bars (or any suspension piece for that matter) is that the static (suspension loaded) location should be in the middle of the theoretical rotational arc. If not, you end up with lateral loads and movement which plays havoc on suspension movement.

Not trying to start an argument or anything, but rather get some clarifications.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 07:53 AM
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That is why the plates are there. I worked all this out years ago when I worked with ADDCO on developing these bars. The plates under the bars not only give clearance room for the collars but also raise the bar which in turn reposition the bar in the proper position for a lowered MN12. Now if something has changed with the specs of the bar and/or ends of the bar I will handle that with ADDCO. I know these bars can be a pain in the butt to install but way back when all I heard was that there was no way to do it

I also wish we had a new and stronger endlink replacement for the stock ones.

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:12 AM
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I doubt anything has changed with the bars it's just sometimes they can be a PITA to install if the stars don't line up correctly.

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:13 AM
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I understand the plates, but I thought they were just for the clearance for the collars.

If the car is lowered 1.5” (or whatever), wouldn't the bar have to be repositioned upward the same amount to keep the geometry the same if the end links aren't shortened?

Correct my thinking: Bar is attached to the frame and end links that are attached to the lower A-arm. If the car is lowered 1.5", the middle section of the bar is lowered the same amount (1.5"), but the ends that are attached to the end links has not changed since the lower A-arm hasn't moved. So now the geometry is not OEM. The only way to get the geometry back to OEM would be to raise the mounting point of the bar back up 1.5" to it's original location, (which I know is not possible) or shorten the end links.

(I really wish I had looked at this front end recently since the last time I looked at everything was months ago.... and those brain cells have long since been destroyed. )

I’m just trying to understand how things can change their location that dramatically, and still remain the same.

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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:20 AM
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Just for everyone's info...

Rockauto.com is showing Moog/DanaSpicer end links for both front and rear:

Front - # K8631 @ $35.89 per

Rear - # K8641 @ $20.79 per

I don't know if they are identical to the OEM's or not. I thought I read in a post that the MOOG's were shorter in the rear, or have shorter ones available in the rear.. can anyone confirm this??.. how about in the front??

I'm gonna check locally at CarQuest to see if they have them in stock, and if they have any idea how they compare to the OEM links.. If they have them, I can get a pic and some measurments..

-mike

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:25 AM
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Dude, I'm talking about a "real" replacement.



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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:30 AM
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Rears are a non-issue since they are just the standard "bolt/spacer/bushing" type of end link setup. All you have to do is shorten the spacer and possibly replace the bolt with a slightly shorter one (or thread the Addco bolt a little farther up).

It's the front that has the bastardized setup with that weird setup.

I have new OEM front ones that I'm going to cut/install, so if you need measurements/photos, let me know.

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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. FrankenCougie
Dude, I'm talking about a "real" replacement.

You mean a PERMANENT replacement. Yeah wouldn't that be nice?? But it may take a rebirth of the MN12 chassis to get someone to manufacture those... the OEM end links will probably be obsolete soon enough ... we better stock up...

I thought maybe the MOOG's might help the guys with clearance issues if they were slightly shorter...

-mike

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:34 AM
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Mmmmmm, spherical rod ends....

Quick question: The holes that goes through the A-arm and the Addco sway bar, is it a straight bore hole, or does it have a conical shape to it? From memory, aren’t the end links like a ball joint and have a slight taper to the bolt/stud?

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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:37 AM
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It all has to do with the shape of the bar and the arc in which the ends travel. The arms on our bars a very long which worked to our advantage with lowering the suspension. Basically with lowering the suspension 1.5" and then installing the larger bar with the plates under it the swing arc and its static positioning are very close to normal. Any difference is not enough to matter with the suspension geometry. If you just lower the suspension and measure the arch and the static positioning of the stock bar you will see if is not necessary to shorten the endlinks. It is really not necessary to even have the plates there but they were needed for the collars and they also happened to put the system closer to stock alignment. Hope this helps.

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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 09:03 AM
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I totally forgot that those arms are as long as they are after they make the bend. They’re something like a foot or more long after the bend aren’t they?

And, yeah, with that length, moving things around doesn't have as much impact.

I'm used to working with much "shorter arms" like in the rear.

Thanks for the clarification!! (And it saves me from having to cut anything)

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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark M. TCCoA VP
Could someone please post some clear pics of the problems. Maybe something has changed with the bars. The ends maybe flattened more than the used to be. The investigation begins...
Here are a couple pics. This is on a 90 XR7 with Vogtland springs, and 97 front spindles and sway bar endlinks. I stuck a stock endlink in there to show how close the sway bar is to the LCA when it is installed.





This is at full suspension drop, since the car is currently on jackstands. The clearance between the sway bar and the LCA is very tight, at max 1/4".

-Rod

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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 08:47 PM
 
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i will post some pictures of our handiwork tomorrow or the day after. the pictures that racecougar posted above pretty much illustrate the problem. in my case the swaybar was hitting the the lower contral arm. what we did was grind the lower part and rounded it so that is looked like the stock one. i do not have a "before" picture, these would just be "after" as the camera battery was dead at the time.

thank you,
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 01:27 PM
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I just sent a stock front end link to the guys at QA1 to see if they can match something up for us. I'd also like to replace the rear suspension Compensnsator link with a better unit and I will send them one of those suckers as soon as I get one off of the (4) MK8 lower arms I have.

-Scott
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 01:38 PM
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I wish I had known you needed one. I just threw two away.

I'll look around and double check that I didn't, but I'm pretty sure I did.

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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 01:43 PM
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Sounds good Scott, let us know what QA1 comes up with.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 96 GoldBird
I don't know if they are identical to the OEM's or not. I thought I read in a post that the MOOG's were shorter in the rear, or have shorter ones available in the rear.. can anyone confirm this??.. how about in the front??
Mike, the Moog front endlinks are a bit shorter than stock. I had a picture uploaded of a Moog and stock endlink side by side for comparison, but deleted it a week or so ago. When I get home this evening I'll check my PC and see if I still have it on my HD.

Sold = 96 Thunderbird
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron K.


Mike, the Moog front endlinks are a bit shorter than stock.
That may be a solution for the guys that are running into clearance problems with the stock links..

-mike

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 02:28 PM
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Aaron,

Any idea how much the Moog front endlinks cost? If you do still have that pic, I'd really like to see it.

Thanks,
Rod

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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 02:39 PM
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Mike posted above that Rock Auto has the fronts for $35.89 each, but I dont remember how much I paid for them. I have the Pep Boys receipt at home, I'll check this evening after work.

If I dont still have the pic, I'll see what I can do about getting under the car to get some. I still have my old front endlinks so I could possibly do another comparison shot, but with the moogs installed. If I remember right, the moogs were only 1/4" - 1/2" shorter than stock, but I could be wrong.

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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-17-2004, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by racecougar
Aaron,

Any idea how much the Moog front endlinks cost? If you do still have that pic, I'd really like to see it.

Thanks,
Rod
Quote:
Originally posted by 96 GoldBird
Just for everyone's info...

Rockauto.com is showing Moog/DanaSpicer end links for both front and rear:

Front - # K8631 @ $35.89 per

Rear - # K8641 @ $20.79 per

-mike
Look up above...

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