how strong is the framerail? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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how strong is the framerail?

how strong is the 2 middle frame rail that are under the body that stop just under the driver and passenger seat?

ahh, wrong section, can mod please help move to suspension forum? thanks.

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Last edited by Casper; 10-27-2006 at 11:17 PM. Reason: wrong section.
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:20 PM
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I don't really know what kind of answer you're looking for here. I mean those rails are decent, but they would be much more beneficial if they continued to the rear subframe.

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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i was thinking of fabbing up a huge x brace that connects to it but wondering if the stiff x brace that connect to frame rail will cause the framerail separation at the joint to the thin metal floor?

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:39 PM
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I would definitely reinforce those rails with more welding if you're thinking about going that direction. Something to keep in mind is that the gas tank will be above the X-brace, so you'll want to make the brace removable.

-Rod

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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the x brace will be connect from the front to where it stop at the rear, just in front of the gas tank. then will bolt a homemade brace similar to jl brace that are underneath the gas tank whick is removeable.

have the front lower brace from jl and the rear i made it here and is at the painting stage. the rear tab that bolts to it already welded on yesterday. so the big x brace will connect the 4 mounting tab.

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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 03:18 AM
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That looks pretty good Casper. Wanna make me one?

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
the x brace will be connect from the front to where it stop at the rear, just in front of the gas tank. then will bolt a homemade brace similar to jl brace that are underneath the gas tank whick is removeable.
You're talking about something like this (see yellow lines in the picture below)?



I really don't think that will stiffen the unibody all that much. The main component that will reduce chassis flex is what you already have, the subframe connectors.

Plus, with that X-brace, you'll have to worry about making it fit below the exhaust/trans/etc., without having it drag on the ground.

-Rod

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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yup, right on for the x brace there with the pic. so once the rear subframe connector is on i can scrape the x brace idea right?

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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
so once the rear subframe connector is on i can scrape the x brace idea right?
I would. I really can't see it helping out much. The subframe connectors will stiffen up the car quite a bit though.

-Rod

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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-29-2006, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the advice here.

how about instead of the x setup, i make crossbar left to right?

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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-29-2006, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
thanks for all the advice here.

how about instead of the x setup, i make crossbar left to right?
I can't see that adding any rigidity either, as you're already adding a crossbar with the subframe connectors, and the factory trans crossmember and the little rear crossmember already support the unibody in the same manner.

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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-29-2006, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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well, that's make sense too.

just wondered with the bar that i gonna install there what stiffen up?

torsional or bending?

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2006, 05:55 AM
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Both.

-Rod

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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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god damm this thing piss me off.

finally adjust so that all the bolt hole match at all the 4 corner and the middle where the 4 8mm bolts will bolt on and now the crossbar hole don't match.

had to redo the crossbar anyway because bolting it up on the garage floor and the end joint that shape like L allowed some pretty noticeable flexing.

also most of the piece is nicely painted already and the genius me use a brake cleaner try to spray off the metal shaving from the drilling and well, brake cleaner wash out half of the paint.

well, live and learned the hard way...my hand is all sore now and still can't get this thing bolt up!!!

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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 10:44 AM
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Stiffening

~~Hello

I think you are looking in the wrong place. I think you should look to the upper shock towers.

I think you should use A cross Bar. Both in the front & rear.

I am Building a Oval track car. I will be adding a 2X3 side frame with 2X2 cross bars. will be tying them to the front & rear frame rails. Most of my bars are inside the drivers compartment, on top of the front frame rail & meet the rear at the same height.
Complete role cage + I X the rear shock towers & a cross brace. I have not figured out the front yet.
Keep in mine that I am not allowed to brace outside of the drivers compartment. My car will be completely stripped of all the interior parts including the glass.

I am going to try to post pictures in the racing section of my progress.

Wish me Luck
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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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please post pic when you are done.

thanks.

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-02-2006, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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well, got that thing put on, error in measurement make the middle 4 8mm bolt unreachable. so now it's only being hold by the 4 corner bolt.

test run noticeable reduce 80% of the squeek and driveline movement. rear end stay more planted now.

next to do is unbolt it again and add extra bracing to box it in instead of H configuration i'm gonna do B configuration.

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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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finally got this thing put on. error on measurement make the 4 8mm bolts unreachable. now it's only bolting up via the 4 corner now.

reduce about 80% of the squeek i had and also reduce the driveline movement. the rear end also stays more planted now.

will unbolted this pice to get more barcing and welding add. will use bracing to box it in instead of H configuration i'm gonna make it a 8 configuration.

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 06:37 AM
 
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I wanna see pictures of when it's bolted up!!!!
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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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will do.

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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the brace is back from the welding shop and it's dark out, will snap pic tommorrow.

side question, with that lower bar in place, is the v-brace in the trunk if reinforce will help any further or the v-brace is non issue anymore?

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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 05:16 PM
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IMHO, a V-brace behind the rear seat (even the stock one) will still add to the overall rigidity of the car.

-Rod

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 05:23 PM
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I've got both the "V" brace and the "L" braces used with the fold down rear seat in mine. I figure it can't hoit! One of these days (Read "springtime" when I'll be autocrossing again) I'll ante up the funds for the shock tower braces. A rear one from Rod, and probably a front one made by a local welding shop. I do like the idea of a set of sub frame connectors to though.


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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 07:33 PM
 
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My v-brace is broken. I've added a rear shock tower brace since it broke. Is the MarkVIII seat brace a stronger bolt-in than the L brace or v brace?

Or would it be best to just make one?

racecougar- what tubing did you make your v-brace out of? Does it bolt to the factory mounts?
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icantdrive55
racecougar- what tubing did you make your v-brace out of? Does it bolt to the factory mounts?
1"x1"x0.125" steel tubing. With the rear firewall, I couldn't use a brace that bolted up to the factory mounts. The firewall was the reason why I made the brace.

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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the mark8 seat brace is welded on to the chasis, that's why i can't get it off the parts car.

mark8's brace is x brace and the metal is a beefier gauge than the one from mn12.

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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 08:56 PM
 
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Disclaimer in case anyone from Corner Carvers views this thread...

Forgive me for the grammar, it's late and I'm kinda tired .....
Note: These aren't an exact design, just to give an idea of what I'm thinking about.

I have been thinking about making some braces of my own, with the help of my father. Anybody got a pic of an MN12 with a full-set of JL's braces installed? I have no intention of trying to rip off a product, I'm just trying to get an idea of what points need reinforceing.


First, the lecb:

Instead of mounting it with one plate on the bottom of the engine cradle and one on the framerail, how about making it with one plate on each side of the framerail and one on the bottom and back of the engine cradle, therefore spreading the load out and making a stronger mount. I.e. the framerail mounts are in double shear, and you have two anchor points on the engine cradle as opposed to 1.


Secondly, my idea for an IRS LCA brace:

Bascially, you tie all 4 rear lca mounts together to prevent relative fore/aft and left-right movement of the LCA mounting points. Tie this brace into the main framerail or sfc system to prevent movement of the IRS assy relative to the main chassis structure.



Finally, I don't have a drawing for this one yet:
1. Bolt Jack rails along rocker panel flange.
2. Braces bolt the jack rails to the main chassis.
3. Extend the main framerail rearward to the IRS subframe mounts.
4. Kicker brace from #3 to the above mentioned IRS LCA brace. (Kicker brace bolts to the SFC assy and IRS brace facilitate IRS removal.)
5. Tie the 2 main framerails together with a some sort of removeable lateral or x-brace
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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pic coming in couple minutes...

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Anyone looking for EBC Greenstuff front pads for non-sport front brakes?
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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v8tsunami, you got me thinking there...

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Every success are only archieveable through many mistake and that's the learning process.

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