Mark M. TCCoA VP - an Addco question for ya plzs :) - TCCoA Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Mark M. TCCoA VP - an Addco question for ya plzs :)

I've been reading through the posts here for hours (and on markviii.org) and was wondering what everyones (esp. Mark M. TCCoA VP's) opinion was on the Addco bars for my Mark VIII?
I want to improve the handling (cornering) but do not want a extremely harsh ride. From what I've read, it looks like going to the 1 3/8" set I won't like.
I was thinking of the 1 1/4" front bar paired with the 1 3/8" rear...
Do you think this will be a good setup? I'd get the advantage of bigger bars, plus the slightly bigger rear bar will help with the understeer? (correct me if I'm wrong plzs!)
Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Jon

Ϣr

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
4.6L DOHC; meter4it.com chase/sequential tail lights; 20" Giovanna Dalars; 4.30 gears; FRPP Track-Lok; SCT tuned; Baumann ReCal; Addco bars; Cobra brakes...

RIP - '86 Mark VII LSC
Icarus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 03:03 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,377
i know a bigger bar in the rear compared to the front will give you slight oversteer in turns. when i put my 1.25" bar in the rear i left the front one stock and the oversteer went up but it wasnt as harsh as my buddys 1 3/8s bar.
Porkchop is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 06:21 AM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
1 1/4" front and 1 1/4" rear is the best setup for ride and handling and 1 3/8" F/R for flat out handing with a little stiffer ride over the 1 1/4" setup. I have the 1 3/8" setup and would not change it for the world and the ride is fine. Hope this helps.,
Mark

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Thanks guys!
So going with same sized bars won't leave the car with understeer still and just better body control? Thats why I figured on the different sized ones?! I really don't think 1 3/8" will be to my liking though in a daily driver...
Icarus is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-13-2006, 12:40 PM
Refrigerator Raider Hater
Moderator
 
GreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vermont
Age: 36
Posts: 11,719
go with the same size, and if you still have understeer, there are better ways to change it than mismatched bars.




Matt "Looks Like Egon" Davis
96 Alpine Green V8
98 Audi A8 4.2Q in Racing Green Totalled
02 Audi A8L 4.2Q in Black

I buy my OEM Ford parts at 10% over dealer cost from Steve in White Bear Lake, MN.
You drive "like a man possessed"... by a woman!
GreenBird is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBird
go with the same size, and if you still have understeer, there are better ways to change it than mismatched bars.
Can you expand on this answer at all please (about better ways?)
Thanks
Icarus is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-19-2006, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus
Can you expand on this answer at all please (about better ways?)
Thanks
...GreenBird, could you elaborate a bit on this please?

Last edited by Icarus; 11-22-2006 at 02:51 AM.
Icarus is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
I haven't gotten any definate info other than Mark M's, so don't know for sure still whether to go with matched 1 1/4" bars, or one sized bigger in the rear so to rid the car of any understeer (with possible slight oversteer>?), or ???
Greenbird, I was hoping you might let me know a bit more about what you said too as I value all advice and opinions but still haven't gotten much
Thanks again all
Jon
Icarus is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:17 AM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
If you go with a smaller rear bar you will end up with some understeer like you have now with the stock bars. I am the person responsible for developing the 1 1/4" and 1 3/8" ADDCO bars in the first place way back in 1998-1999 and have tested every combo extensively. All these larger bars for the MN12s and FN10s come with a install sheet from ADDCO with my name on the bottom so trust me on this.

Mark

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru

Last edited by Mark M. TCCoA VP; 11-29-2006 at 07:30 AM.
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Sorry, I meant should I go with say, 1 3/8 in the rear and 1 1/4 in the front, this will induce more oversteer (how much I don't know) which is actually the way I prefer a car to drive slightly (by throttle)...
Mark, I do value your opinion over any others as I know you went through the development with Addco (hence the title of the post ) I'm just confused a bit seeing as I have gotten split answers even from other than race too...
I'm just trying to get & make the best informed decision I can seeing as getting bars up here is a bit tougher...
Icarus is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 02:07 PM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
A smaller rear bar (1 3/8" F- 1 1/4" R) will give you under steer. A larger rear bar 1 3/8" F and 1 1/4" R will give you over steer. An MN12 with our IRS system and a balanced set of bars will give you a very neutral setup and that is what I recommend. The only exception to this is a stock front bar and a 1 /4" rear bar to put the system into a more neutral setup from the stock under steer setup. Most of the stock setups have around a 1.1" solid bar and a 15/16" hollow rear bar which gives you a lot of under steer.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru

Last edited by Mark M. TCCoA VP; 11-29-2006 at 02:15 PM.
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 02:22 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
tbirdtess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Western New York
Age: 53
Posts: 2,542
1 3/8 Front

``Hello

I am going to install a 1 3/8" front bar. Not sure about the rear bar.
I am making a custom adjustable sway bar link, Right front.

I get a big push coming out of the corners. When hard on the Gas it's worst.

It got better after we stiffened the rear shock towers.

We are currently building a New stock chassis. We are trying the stiffen the front spring towers & rear shock towers + replace the rubber bushings with something stiffer than stock.

We are also trying the get better rear weight %. Right now we have about 47%
We are only allowed 51% left side weight. Our total weight must be 3400lb.
These are numbers from the old chassis.

We are changing the bars for the new chassis. For better rigidness.
Remember this is a Oval track car, Street stock. 1/2 mile asphalt oval.

Any ideas?

Paul

Paul [email protected]
1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
3.90 open rear
tbirdtess is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 02:38 PM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
Tight courses may require more over steer, fast tracks under steer. It's going to take some trail and error to get your setup right so I can't give you a precise snap answer. But an opinion to start with if you ARE going with a 1 3/8" front bar I would start with the 1 3/8" rear and have a 1 1 /4" rear on hand to swap out. As you know there are sooo many variables for the track suspension setups but you have to start somewhere.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 02:28 PM
Veteran Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 803
Mark 8 suspension MN10 VS MN12 and sway bars.
To my understanding the Mark 8 comes with a wimpy tubular rear bar. The active suspension does some spring height control under loading.

Has anyone experienced a significant change on a Mark 8 with airbag/active when installing a larger solid bar?

I have had all sorts of bars on my Birds. I was most happy with the 1.04" Supercoupe or 1-1/4" bars on the rear. The 1-3/8 really seemed to affect the ride quality.

Running the 1-3/8 up front with a lighter bar in the back allowed for more power to be applied coming out of turns. Firm rear broke loose easy.

As for a circle track stocker, (the way I understand all this)
stiffer is not always better on handling. Remember that shocks really affect the handling especially during transitions in braking and throttle. A car that might push into a corner with a certain setup can often compensate by softening the front shocks to get bite at the turn-in. The same softer shock will shift more weight to the rear tires on acceleration and help with bite off the corner.
I'm sure you can find all sorts of info better than I can offer, but just don't get fooled by stiffer is better thinking.

BTW, I have converted my Mark 8 to springs. The Monroe replacements shocks that came with the kit suck!!!!. Going to try another pair and if that is a bust, Tokico's are going on the front. The rear sensa-trac shocks (did not come with kit) are a good fit overall. Many MN12 cars have these with good result.


One thing I fear now is that the rear bar is too light for safety in the turns. Wants to oversteer like crazy with factory size tires and this mushy front end.

Most fun I ever had was with the Texas TCCOA guys making power and drag racing.


Now I am using a 2001 BMW M3 Vert for fun.
RichardM is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 08:09 PM
TCCoA Founder
 
Sir William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Age: 49
Posts: 4,161
I can tell you what increased the oversteer the MOST on my car after upgrading the bars was a good shock tower brace. Holding the tops of the towers together really tightens up the steering. If you don't have it, get one..... make one..... whatever it takes. It's worth it.

God Bless and Fly Low!

Sir William
TCCoA Founder


97 Thunderbird LX - Smoothed

99 Expedition Eddie Bauer

04 Grand Cherokee Overland
Sir William is offline  
post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Thank you guys!!! I didn't get a notification about the posts after my last on 11-29 so didn't think anyone else had added anything.
I'll have to look into a shock tower brace later as I still have a bunch of stuff on the plate to do to the car so far, but I will do it too from the sounds of it...
I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with 1 1/4" F & R. With a shock tower brace to come later. I still have the full air suspension in good condition. This sounds like a good idea I guess, eh? ...even though the Marks came with the hollow bar origianlly, I don't think I need to plus size the rear vs. front?!
Icarus is offline  
post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-04-2007, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Well, it looks like I'm ordering a 1 1/4" set this week!

Thanks Mark and everyone for helping me decide which to go with. I think I'll be happy with the 1 1/4" as I don't want to loss as much ride comfort as the 1 3/8" set will take... I hope I'm not wrong, lol...

Ϣr

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
4.6L DOHC; meter4it.com chase/sequential tail lights; 20" Giovanna Dalars; 4.30 gears; FRPP Track-Lok; SCT tuned; Baumann ReCal; Addco bars; Cobra brakes...

RIP - '86 Mark VII LSC
Icarus is offline  
post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-07-2007, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Mark, any final thoughts before I order the 1 1/4" matched bars for my Lincoln in a day or two... I'm making the right choice?
Icarus is offline  
post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 07:49 AM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
Yes if you want ride and handling but I would not change my big bars for anything and the ride is not bad at all. It's all up to you.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Thank you Mark. I ordered the 1 1/4" set today. I think from all I've read and talking with you and Addco, that it should be enough bar for what I'm looking for. The service when I called Addco has been great so far!
I'll let you know when everything shows up
Jon

Ϣr

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
4.6L DOHC; meter4it.com chase/sequential tail lights; 20" Giovanna Dalars; 4.30 gears; FRPP Track-Lok; SCT tuned; Baumann ReCal; Addco bars; Cobra brakes...

RIP - '86 Mark VII LSC
Icarus is offline  
post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
I ordered one of these today as well to do the front bar. I hope it will make the job much easier and no worries about the hoses/cables etc, and I can drop the sub frame without worry...?!


Ϣr

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
4.6L DOHC; meter4it.com chase/sequential tail lights; 20" Giovanna Dalars; 4.30 gears; FRPP Track-Lok; SCT tuned; Baumann ReCal; Addco bars; Cobra brakes...

RIP - '86 Mark VII LSC
Icarus is offline  
post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
hmmm... will I even need this? I've re-read the install article and didn't think which one I'll use, the SC or non-SC one... hmmm...
Icarus is offline  
post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-30-2007, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Front bar showed up and was the wrong size. They were really good and fast in getting the correct ones to me though!
I installed the rear one the other night and love the way it handles, but I have an issue with it rubbing the air bag on the one side, so it needs to come out till I figure it out It shifts over even if I push it right to the other side. I did use the washers for the install.
I can't wait to get this sorted out and the front bar in as well though!!!

Ϣr

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
4.6L DOHC; meter4it.com chase/sequential tail lights; 20" Giovanna Dalars; 4.30 gears; FRPP Track-Lok; SCT tuned; Baumann ReCal; Addco bars; Cobra brakes...

RIP - '86 Mark VII LSC
Icarus is offline  
post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-30-2007, 02:29 PM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
I got your email and you are the first one with a rubbing issue. If you grind the side that is hitting the bag it looks like it will be just a small amount it should be fine. That run of bars may have been a tad off but I do think you can grind it away and be done with it and that would be better then sending the bar back. Let me know how it goes.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-31-2007, 02:47 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
I'll keep that in mind, but don't want to touch it till I hear from them. I don't want to screw my chances of exchanging the bar because I tried to modify it myself
If I did do that, I think the bar would travel further over and still rub. I think it needs those ring clips like the front bars have?
Icarus is offline  
post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-31-2007, 05:28 AM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
no that is not it.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-31-2007, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M. TCCoA VP View Post
no that is not it.
? I don't need the ring clips or ?
Icarus is offline  
post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
Heavily Medicated Crime Fighter
 
Mark M. TCCoA VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Batcave, Wakefield, MA
Posts: 2,073
Send a message via AIM to Mark M. TCCoA VP Send a message via Yahoo to Mark M. TCCoA VP
you do not need collars for the rear bar. Your bar may be a tad short between the legs for some reason or it may be your bags. See what they say.

"Mark M. TCCoA VP. Emeritus"

To the Batmobile ! ! !

ADDCO MN12 big bar R&D guru
Mark M. TCCoA VP is offline  
post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-31-2007, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 348
ah, I see what your saying!
I got a reply from them saying to use the collars today. They didn't say if they were sending them or not, just to use them!? That was all they said...
The car is fairly low mileage (62k miles) and the bags are in excellent shape, so I can't think of anything that might be wrong with them. I think it's like you mentioned about being a bit short between the arms of the bar, as well I think the arms being a lil long (combination of this makes it rub.) If I center the bar, there is only about 3/8"-1/2" between the bag and bar arms.

Last edited by Icarus; 08-01-2007 at 02:21 AM.
Icarus is offline  
post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:34 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
tbirdtess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Western New York
Age: 53
Posts: 2,542
Fit

Hello

I am having trouble with a 1 3/8" front bar. I can't seen to get the spacers in on the drivers side. It seems to be hitting the frame.
With out the spacers I can't get the collar on. Is there a Trick?

There is no engine in the car right now.

Paul

Paul [email protected]
1990 Thunderbird Circle Track Street Stock
351W 2bbl.
C-4 Auto
3.90 open rear
tbirdtess is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome