non serpentine belt for the 4.6L - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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non serpentine belt for the 4.6L

hey it's been a while since i've posted. has anyone ever heard of a belt kit for the 4.6L to convert it to a non-serp setup? a few years ago i was working on my brother's subaru legacy, and i noticed it had 2 belts in simple triangle routes. since the 4.6 is a rat maze of rubber, does a kit exist with different pulleys for this? maybe extend half the pulleys out farther and put a double belt wheel on the crank?

oh and also, i need a new 96-97 tbird tail light bar if ayone would sell one.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 02:24 PM
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Why? V belts are antiquated garbage and got phased out for good reason. The N/A 4.6 belt drive is easy compared to others.

To answer your question, No.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 01-22-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-22-2011, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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well it was nice that even though his ac took a massive dump on him, the belt to the water pump was still good. so at least he could drive it to a mechanic to get that fixed. too bad the nimrod was too broke to get that done. ya, we live in a desert state. no ac really blows in the summer. oh well, it was just a curiosity question.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 01:36 PM
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You'll hear the bearing squeaking for at least a month before it seizes; buy a AC eliminator, and keep it in the car, if you're worried about it.

Or, you could fix it when it starts making noise...

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Or, you could fix it when it starts making noise...
BINGO!

John
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2001 Sable Wagon 3.0 Duratec
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 03:34 PM
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Could you run an A/C eliminating belt in the winter to increase MPG and reduce wear and tear on the pump?

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 03:42 PM
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The pulley free wheels without the clutch engaged, you lose 0 power and don't wear the pump. The clutch cycles in in the defrost settings and the"panel/floor" selection so it does serve a purpose in winter.

-Matt
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
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The pulley free wheels without the clutch engaged, you lose 0 power and don't wear the pump. The clutch cycles in in the defrost settings and the"panel/floor" selection so it does serve a purpose in winter.
Good to know! Thanks!

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 04:02 PM
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Although it doesn't do anything if the temperature is under ~50 degrees.

-Brandon
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 04:17 PM
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It won't blow cold air, but it still serves it's purpose for dehumidifying

-Matt
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 05:01 PM
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The a/c clutch won't cycle if the outside temperature is too low. As the ambient air temperature decreases, the pressure inside the a/c system does as well, and the cycling switch will inhibit the clutch from actuating when the pressure drops below a certain point. This point usually happens when the air temperature is around 50 degrees.

From the FSM:

"The A/C cycling switch:
-senses pressure in the A/C evaporator core pressure to control operation of the A/C compressor.
-uses this method of control to stop operation of the A/C compressor during ambient temperatures below approximately 10*C (50*F) and prevent icing of the A/C evaporator core during normal system operation."

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 05:07 PM
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Yet the clutch engages when you turn the defroster on...

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 05:13 PM
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I never said the clutch doesn't come on with defrost/floor, defrost and panel/floor. If the system is correctly charged, it won't come on if it's too cold outside. Otherwise the evaporator core would ice over completely. See the wikipedia article related to gas laws.

-Brandon
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 05:36 PM
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Start with PV=nrT. Work from there, lol.

It doesn't have to work very hard to dehumidify air, so it only cycles for a sec, unless the system is almost empty.

As long as it gets below the local dewpoint, it will dry the air; that can be 2° in the winter.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 06:00 PM
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Then if the clutch is cycling and it's 2 degrees outside, where does all that moisture go? It would have to stick to the evaporator. After a few minutes the evaporator will ice over and no air will flow across it. And because it's so cold, it won't thaw either. Additionally, for R-134a to reach 2 degrees F, the pressure in the evaporator would have to be under 8 PSI. That's well below the cutoff point for the cycling switch in these cars. The switch cuts off at 22-28 PSI, which is between a 25 and 32 degree refrigerant temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_laws
If the temperature changes and the number of gas molecules are kept constant, then either pressure or volume (or both) will change in direct proportion to the temperature.
Which means that as temperature drops, so does pressure. The converse is true with regards to a refrigerant; as pressure goes down (or up) so will the temperature, that's the basic principle behind which A/C operates. The cycling switch opens when the pressure is below 22-28 PSI and closes above 40-47, so that means if the pressure in the system with an even pressure on both high and low sides is under 40 PSI, the cycling switch won't close and the clutch won't engage. Simple as that.

Again, a quote from the FSM:

"Ambient temperature below approximately 7 - 10*C (45-50*F), during cold weather seasons, prevents the A/C cycling switch contacts from closing.
This is due to the pressure / temperature relationship of the refrigerant and the requirement of the system pressure to reach 276-324 kPa (40-47 psi) to close the A/C cycling switch contacts."

The defroster works in winter by heating the air, not by removing moisture. As the temperature of the air increases, its ability to hold more moisture does as well. The warm air carries the moisture away from the surface with a higher moisture content than the air, and the moist air passes out of the car. What good is blowing freezing dry air at a frozen iced over windshield? Evaporation is much faster than sublimation...

And besides, I have verified all this myself. When I had my system charged after I replaced the compressor two years ago, it was mid April and the temps were still around 40 degrees. The A/C clutch wasn't cycling then, but as the temperature rose things started to run. Same goes for now. It's 15 outside and the clutch isn't moving.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by theterminator93; 01-23-2011 at 10:02 PM.
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