wide open throttle - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 05:56 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
wide open throttle

newbie here once again-'95 cougar v8; at 3/4 throttle seem to get good acceleration and transmission shifting. when I floor it, it noses over, no acceleration and won't kick down. linkages seem to be hooked up correctly. could this be related to egr malfunction and/or clogged passages to intake? had a '93 linc tc that almost wouldn't accelerate at all due to egr problems. haven't checked the tps yet, but it seems to work thru most of its travel. any and all ideas out there welcome.
92spi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 12:44 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 9,040
Garage
Potentially a TPS issue - mainly because the TPS is what controls shifting behavior; shift points are set by throttle position vs. vehicle speed (or RPM when at WOT). If the PCM isn't getting the signal that you're at WOT, the shifts will be premature.

Probe the voltage at the sensor. It should be less than 1V at idle, at more than 4.5V at WOT. http://www.tccoa.com/articles/engine/tps.html

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 161k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 155k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
theterminator93 is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 01:42 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 49
Posts: 584
Garage
On a 5.0 it's a PITA to adjust as well. Not sure on a 4.6

God created Arakis to train the faithful... One cannot go against the word of God.........
Natesriv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 06:04 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
iamcaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 77
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92spi View Post
newbie here once again-'95 cougar v8; at 3/4 throttle seem to get good acceleration and transmission shifting. when I floor it, it noses over, no acceleration and won't kick down. linkages seem to be hooked up correctly. could this be related to egr malfunction and/or clogged passages to intake? had a '93 linc tc that almost wouldn't accelerate at all due to egr problems. haven't checked the tps yet, but it seems to work thru most of its travel. any and all ideas out there welcome.
wide open throttle sends the ecm into the default fuel/timing map.
3/4 throttle the ecm is in adaptive learning so the car will self adjust fuel and timing.

go back to the basics check for fuel restrictions (filter)
have a look at the plugs, check what makes the engine happy.

drive fast!
iamcaper is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 12:17 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 49
Posts: 584
Garage
Agreed, get motocraft. I put in two new ones in my 5.0 and they weren't anywhere near the correct voltage at key on engine off....

God created Arakis to train the faithful... One cannot go against the word of God.........
Natesriv is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
Potentially a TPS issue - mainly because the TPS is what controls shifting behavior; shift points are set by throttle position vs. vehicle speed (or RPM when at WOT). If the PCM isn't getting the signal that you're at WOT, the shifts will be premature.

Probe the voltage at the sensor. It should be less than 1V at idle, at more than 4.5V at WOT. TCCoA Tech Articles
tps seems to be working ok according to voltages- about 1 volt at idle and 4.9 volts at WOT. used an analog voltmeter to maybe detect 'flat spots' thru the voltages-saw none. car had been sitting awhile, and is a little loose in the bottom end (slight rattle above 4.5k rpm). it'll be an ongoing project for a while; most of my other stuff runs well enough not to fool with.
92spi is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 01:40 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: fantasy land
Posts: 575
My bad tps also tested correct voltage and didn't throw a cel but had exact same symptoms your describing ...
94badbird is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 04:56 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Thumbs down

new motorcraft tps did not solve the issue of no WOT. about 3.5k rpm is about tops for this engine. any more application of accelerator and engine noses over. beginning to think some restriction of exhaust system may be present, for lack of better ideas. have a fuel filter on the way, and will see about disconnecting exhaust tubing from manifolds to check flow. very difficult to remove screws from tps; steel to aluminum adhesion I assume. could this engine be timed wrong? very smooth idle.
92spi is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 06:26 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 9,040
Garage
That was my next suggestion/suspicion (clogged cats) if TPS testing proved unfruitful. You can more easily (potentially) test the exhaust by removing the O2 sensors if completely removing it from the manifolds is too difficult. Getting at the right O2 sensor can be a bit of a chore though.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 161k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 155k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
theterminator93 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
meanwhile, back at the ranch, after a 20 minute cruise down the road and parked on the carport, held at WOT (about 3750 rpm is all I could get) for about a minute, I notice an orange glow on the exhaust from front to back. how about some input on this? thank you.
92spi is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 03:23 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92spi View Post
...I notice an orange glow on the exhaust from front to back. ...
Without looking, you have a 94 or 95.

You have an injector hanging open; The glow is too much fuel burning in the pipe.

There probably IS no cat on that side, lol.

If there is one, it will have issues.


Start with a solenoid light... Ah, fuck that.

Disconnect the injectors one by one on that side, and see which one makes no difference at all.
Three on that side will make for a rough idle when you unplug them, one will barely make a difference.

Put a test light into the plug; it will be on, not flashing.

This is a common problem with those years.

You will need a new EEC.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
BOTH sides were glowing. does this mean an injector is hanging on both banks? I have only noticed this after I held the accelerator down for about a minute and the engine was only running about 3750 rpm.
92spi is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 04:45 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,023
Garage
I would test all the injectors with a "noid light".

I bought a set years ago; Advanced will loan a set, iirc.



Of course, holding the throttle open for a full minute, with it running very rich, would do the same thing.

I missed this part:
"held at WOT (about 3750 rpm is all I could get) for about a minute,"

I wouldn't do that; it won't help.



Cats will definitely need replacing; I'd recommend the "Rebar treatment" until you find out why it's dumping fuel.

No need to replace them and kill new ones.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
first I would like to thank you for your kind responses. the car has a smooth idle and runs well as long as you don't push the accelerator beyond about 3/4. after that it pops and sputters and you lose speed if you are moving. holding the accelerator to the floor for a minute was an attempt to either "make it or break it", if you will. there was a horrible smell associated with this also; not the hydrogen sulfide smell, either. I think I will take you advice on the "rebar treatment" this weekend and report back. once again, thanks.
92spi is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 06:01 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 9,040
Garage
Yeah, definitely sounds like it's running rich along with whatever else is going on (glowing exhaust usually means exhaust restriction). Although these cars are notorious for running rich at WOT with the factory program.

I would think a hung injector would smooth out a bit at high TP, and cause a rough idle.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 161k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 155k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
theterminator93 is offline  
post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2017, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
well, removed the exhaust sys back of the resonator-no difference. then removed entire exhaust from manifolds back and still no difference. makes me think throttle position sensor again. maybe a new set of plugs, too. sure runs and pulls good and shifts good at part throttle, but at WOT, sputters and misses. gonna keep at it, though.
92spi is offline  
post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 09:23 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
TwoHaggard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 555
Garage
Dirty MAF sensor?

Project still in progress
Explorer engine, vortech v2,intercooled,bullit intake,derale power steering cooler, b&m trans cooler, oil filter relocation, cobra aluminum radiator, Walbro 255 Pump, Intrax 2in lowering springs, KYB front/back,,mark8 Driveshaft, 1.25Rear sway bar, 3:73 aluminum diff, TrackLok, Rear Diff Cover Brace, Sc Wheels 235/60s, Jmodd, Air Bags in Springs,Rear strut Bar,17in Mirror Blk CobraRs, Sc L Brackets, rear torsional load brace, kmember-frame brace, weightloss program, pbr dual pistons drilled/slotted, stainless lines , recaro seats, sct x4 DonL tuned
TwoHaggard is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome