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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Worth to weld these cars?

I have a few major holes, wonder if anyone welded theirs.

-Under my left foot, the channel in the floor is all gone (I never replaced the mat, I'm sure it is from that and the salt dripping on it)
-Subframe ahead of the rear mount, pretty gone. The mount area is ok.
-Trunk area, by the shock absorber.

The rockers are no big deal, you can buy them. I know it will never be perfect but wondering if it is worth to bother. A replace here in better shape is out of the question. I looked at a few and they are worse than mine.

I went to a guy here who is an expert welder, he said he saw much worse. He also said what are you going to buy new to replace it? He has a Mk 8.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tbirdguy View Post
I have a few major holes, wonder if anyone welded theirs.

-Under my left foot, the channel in the floor is all gone (I never replaced the mat, I'm sure it is from that and the salt dripping on it)
-Subframe ahead of the rear mount, pretty gone. The mount area is ok.
-Trunk area, by the shock absorber.

The rockers are no big deal, you can buy them. I know it will never be perfect but wondering if it is worth to bother. A replace here in better shape is out of the question. I looked at a few and they are worse than mine.

I went to a guy here who is an expert welder, he said he saw much worse. He also said what are you going to buy new to replace it? He has a Mk 8.
Q: What are you going to buy to replace it?
A: You could buy some car from CA or a non-rustbelt state.
At these point, the tbird is fully depreciated out. Buy one in better condition, swap whatever bits are better on your car, and sell/scrap the rest will likely net you a better end-car than the labor for MULTIPLE sheet metal repairs as you have outlined above.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 04:49 PM
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The channel under your left foot is no big deal. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the subframe area ahead of the rear mount, but even if that is easy, the trunk area by the shock is most likely what is going to be the death sentence. That area has the trunk floor, shock mount, and inner wheelhouse all sandwiched together. To make sure rust doesn't come back, you have to cut it all out, which in the case of that rear shock mount means to get the access you need, you need to remove the inner wheelhouse, which requires removing either the entire trunk floor, or the quarter panel, which not only is major amounts of labor, but neither of those panels are available. If the goal is just to make it structurally sound at the shock mount in order to keep driving the car, that is one thing, and is certainly possible, but that rust there is only going to get worse, and I wouldn't advise sinking any money into other rust repairs on a car that has rust in that area. Rust-free cars are still out there, occasionally you can even find one up in the northeast here, but my advice would be to buy a car from somewhere down south, and make a road-trip/vacation out of picking it up, and swap all your goodies onto the new shell.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
The channel under your left foot is no big deal. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the subframe area ahead of the rear mount, but even if that is easy, the trunk area by the shock is most likely what is going to be the death sentence. That area has the trunk floor, shock mount, and inner wheelhouse all sandwiched together. To make sure rust doesn't come back, you have to cut it all out, which in the case of that rear shock mount means to get the access you need, you need to remove the inner wheelhouse, which requires removing either the entire trunk floor, or the quarter panel, which not only is major amounts of labor, but neither of those panels are available. If the goal is just to make it structurally sound at the shock mount in order to keep driving the car, that is one thing, and is certainly possible, but that rust there is only going to get worse, and I wouldn't advise sinking any money into other rust repairs on a car that has rust in that area. Rust-free cars are still out there, occasionally you can even find one up in the northeast here, but my advice would be to buy a car from somewhere down south, and make a road-trip/vacation out of picking it up, and swap all your goodies onto the new shell.
This isn't a prewar BMW where any little scrap is worth $$$.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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The channel under your left foot is no big deal. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the subframe area ahead of the rear mount, but even if that is easy, the trunk area by the shock is most likely what is going to be the death sentence. That area has the trunk floor, shock mount, and inner wheelhouse all sandwiched together. To make sure rust doesn't come back, you have to cut it all out, which in the case of that rear shock mount means to get the access you need, you need to remove the inner wheelhouse, which requires removing either the entire trunk floor, or the quarter panel, which not only is major amounts of labor, but neither of those panels are available. If the goal is just to make it structurally sound at the shock mount in order to keep driving the car, that is one thing, and is certainly possible, but that rust there is only going to get worse, and I wouldn't advise sinking any money into other rust repairs on a car that has rust in that area. Rust-free cars are still out there, occasionally you can even find one up in the northeast here, but my advice would be to buy a car from somewhere down south, and make a road-trip/vacation out of picking it up, and swap all your goodies onto the new shell.
The area that used to hold the rear quarter panel bracket brace is gone. It is part of the frame. The welding guy saw it all and said about $5-600. Then he said blast everything with Eastwood Frame rust fix or whatever. He said the car could be sandblasted too.

I have other cars, but kinda hate to see it go . I drive an 11 Lexus GS 350 AWD, it is kind of in the same spirit of the Bird, in some ways. Has the AWD bulge like the old Tbird AWD mule.

One option on it was the adjustable (2 switch) Tokico shocks from the Tbird SC. I was thinking of a used BMW coupe but those aren't reliable.

Probably a southern car is a good bet.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
This isn't a prewar BMW where any little scrap is worth $$$.
Exclusive: This Iowa barn-find BMW Veritas hides a rare 1937 328 factory lightweight racer

Over a million MN12s were made. Pick one.
-g
Makes you think, there are definitely not over a million MN12s left now, and in 60ish years, where they'd be as old as that crusty BMW husk is now, how many will be left?

-Matt
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 07:02 PM
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I have a friend who went through the trouble of repairing the shock mount. It basically depends how attached you are to the specific car. He ended up removing the entire trunk floor. He drilled out the spot welds to save what he could, but it took him a while

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 07:56 PM
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My car has this issue as well (rear shock rust). I am planning on eventually having a roll bar installed (shooting for future 10’s). Would anyone know if tying the roll bar into this area would aid in the ease/ strength of the repair?

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 09:56 PM
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A roll bar tied into there will resolve the structural concerns completely, but it won’t stop the rust.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 10:40 PM
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In a perfect world, I would find a shop that could handle the rust repair and the cage. If you know of any between NJ and MI, let me know.

1995 T-Bird.
PI 4.6. Bullitt intake. Stage 2 MHS cams. Kooks Headers. 4,200 ATF Speed converter. BCA Transmission. 4:10s. Tune by Supercoupes Unlimited. 245 RWHP.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Makes you think, there are definitely not over a million MN12s left now, and in 60ish years, where they'd be as old as that crusty BMW husk is now, how many will be left?
1) They never made that many pre-war BMWs to begin with and there was the matter of a whole WW to help cut down the numbers.
That being said, rarity should never be confused with value.
2) While I would imagine a tiny fraction of BMWs will be left in 67 years,
a) a better question will be how many gasoline cars in general (not just tbirds but all vehicles NOT CURRENTLY treated as stores of value like the McLaren F1) will still be around
b) does it matter anyway as most all of us won't be around at the time even with the advances in modern medicine (I hazard to guess that most tbird owners on this forum are OVER vs UNDER 33; I suspect the median age on this forum is probably closer to 40).

-g

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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In a perfect world, I would find a shop that could handle the rust repair and the cage. If you know of any between NJ and MI, let me know.
This guy is one of the best in country from what I was told, maybe a bit off your route, but he can weld anything. He did some good work for me in the past. Very honest place.

He is an expert in Frame rot, I know he drives a repaired Grand Marquis that rotted under the A/C drip area. He has big rigs in his shop in for frame repair, those have rigorous inspections too. There is a pic of a Toyota frame repair.

https://www.facebook.com/GovelWeldingInc/

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 10:29 AM
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My 2 cents. I scraped my Cougar about 2 years ago, I owned it for probably 5 years. I blew out a brake line for the second time, chunks of metal had been falling off underneath the doors, the mount for the rear subframe were rotting away, I knew it the end was closing in. I didn't have the funds or a spare car to have it repaired, if I did I would have fixed it. With that said, it worked out for me. I found, with the help of some good people on this forum, a beautiful 96 in Kentucky that came out of Texas with only about 50K miles. I will say I still miss my ol' one. Honestly, these cars are all worthless, except to the people on this forum. I'm always of the opinion of repairing what I have instead of tossing it out.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
1) They never made that many pre-war BMWs to begin with and there was the matter of a whole WW to help cut down the numbers.
That being said, rarity should never be confused with value.
2) While I would imagine a tiny fraction of BMWs will be left in 67 years,
a) a better question will be how many gasoline cars in general (not just tbirds but all vehicles NOT CURRENTLY treated as stores of value like the McLaren F1) will still be around
b) does it matter anyway as most all of us won't be around at the time even with the advances in modern medicine (I hazard to guess that most tbird owners on this forum are OVER vs UNDER 33; I suspect the median age on this forum is probably closer to 40).

-g
I didn't say anything about value, I'm talking selection. There may have been over a million produced but if I were searching for a rust free V8 1996 Cougar Sport Moonroof car in E4 bright red with a grey interior, settling on a tan Bostonian with a landau top isn't going to cut it. The numbers have been cut down by at the very least 3/4 today and aren't likely to be slowing down into the future. Not a factor when your purpose is cutting it up for racing, but for those of us who are passionate about these cars primarily as street drivers, it is a reality.

I could care less whether or not that husk of a BMW was at the bottom of the ocean, just because some 1 percenters can afford to inflate values of their junk doesn't make their car passion any more relevant. There's no telling what the value on anything today will be in 67 years, BMW's brand equity has coasted on it's laurels for 20 years, and an ever older age group appreciates the brand and its history, and has the money and passion to inflate the value on the rare ones. I'd hazard a guess that most BMW owners today don't even know the brand existed before the 2002, if that far back.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 04-13-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 04:20 PM
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A car I can't drive, to "Preserve it's Value" has no value at all to me, at all.

I'd sell it, and spend the cash on one of the cars I can drive, lol.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 07:18 PM
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A car I can't drive, to "Preserve it's Value" has no value at all to me, at all.

I'd sell it, and spend the cash on one of the cars I can drive, lol.
Agreed! And this is why we can’t have nice things!
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-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote Jr. View Post
I have a friend who went through the trouble of repairing the shock mount. It basically depends how attached you are to the specific car. He ended up removing the entire trunk floor. He drilled out the spot welds to save what he could, but it took him a while
Did he happen to take any pics during the repair process? And if so, could you possibly share them?

1995 T-Bird.
PI 4.6. Bullitt intake. Stage 2 MHS cams. Kooks Headers. 4,200 ATF Speed converter. BCA Transmission. 4:10s. Tune by Supercoupes Unlimited. 245 RWHP.
3,700 lbs at half tank. Goal- 3,400 lbs
Best of 13.85 at 96 mph. Goal- 11's NA

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1997 Lincoln Mark VIII FX2 Sand Dune Machine- R.I.P.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Thunderstruck95 View Post
Did he happen to take any pics during the repair process? And if so, could you possibly share them?
He never took any pictures, none that he shared with me at least.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
A car I can't drive, to "Preserve it's Value" has no value at all to me, at all.

I'd sell it, and spend the cash on one of the cars I can drive, lol.
Ruby Jean is a bit over 250,000 miles and had about 79,000 when we bought it Dec 31 2009.

(And has spent over a year total up on jack stands; a LOT of that was recovering from the damage the previous owners put into it.)

RwP
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 06:47 PM
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I'm glad my wife's Cougar has only 45K on it, and really, no rust. It's never really seen salt, even being here on Long Island. It's not driven in the snow much, except by me.

This thing is going to outlast everything else I own, I think.

As of 3/2019:
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 08:30 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I've had the cluster out of Lazaurs since Christmas, lol.

I'm adding a stereo, and the Indiglo Gauges.

They look good installed, and if you turn off the indiglo, I can see the regular lights.

I primed the FP once, and it started no problem; it hasn't been started since October.

No, I don't miss carbs, not at all.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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