Should I buy a supercharged T Bird for $3500 - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Should I buy a supercharged T Bird for $3500

Anyone ever heard of a 4.00 rear end? I’m looking at buying a 96 t bird Allen supercharged and guy is telling me the rear end tag says 4.00 and he and a bunch of gear heads are baffled. It’s a 8.8 rear end, car is really clean and can get it for $3500.

Car has a 97 Crown Vic motor and trans in it. It’s a 4.6 v8. I can’t figure out how to upload a video but from what he’s sent me car runs really good. Thoughts?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 09:02 PM
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That's a nice looking Bird. If you are thinking to modify one, this might be the cheapest way. Back in the day, the kit to put an Allen was $4500. My first MN12 I put an Allen in it. I found out pretty quick that the Allen kit was limited with the M90. The best thing I did was to add a PI motor with the Allen and put a nice exhaust system. On drag radials & 3.27 gears it ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 seconds at 80mph.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 09:33 PM
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$3500 is worth a gamble after inspection and test drive, If you can't inspect try to figure out how much rust it might have. Maybe find out how long it's been where they salt the roads.

Mins is a 1992 and the seats may not make it to year 30 in my desert climate.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 09:50 PM
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I'd buy it.. Wished Id waited and saved up.. I'll have $10,000+ in my car to get it that nice.. I gave $500 for mine tho..
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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That's a nice looking Bird. If you are thinking to modify one, this might be the cheapest way. Back in the day, the kit to put an Allen was $4500. My first MN12 I put an Allen in it. I found out pretty quick that the Allen kit was limited with the M90. The best thing I did was to add a PI motor with the Allen and put a nice exhaust system. On drag radials & 3.27 gears it ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 seconds at 80mph.
Read ya later, Nick
Never heard of that kind of rear before though. Guy has been straight forward. Long of the short, I posted an earlier thread in 2016. I tracked down my first car which was a burgundy ford thunderbird.....but it had been wrecked. I fixed the ball joint and front brakes on it and have bought a ton of parts for it. It'll cost me way more than $3500.00 to get it like I want it and this car here just has a little clear coat peeling.

I really would love to fix up my "first car" but for what's done to this one, really wouldn't make sense.

He said no rust. He had a time with the car. He bought it from a guy who claimed it had a jasper transmission in it, well it did but according to the research of the current owner he said it came out of a Ford Windstar. Transmission went out like a week after he bought it.

This guy put in a 97 113,000 mile motor and trans out of a Police Crown Victoria and put the supercharger on it.

My car I still have which will cost a lot more to get to the $3500 car I’m looking at now. It’s a 96 but previous owner put a 94/95 front end on it. Already got $1200 in this car

Anyone know if this is the 6 psi or 9 psi kit by lookinh at this pic?
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 10:42 AM
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Those are 19lb injectors; if that car has been run with that blower, it's been running very lean on top end.

Dorman sells the door hinge kit you need for the Red one, that shovel will scratch the paint eventually.

If you think $1200 is a serious investment, you picked the wrong money pit.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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How can you tell about running lean? The guy said it probably does need a good tune. He's only put about 2,000 miles on the car since the swap.

So on the red one, its actually the "door bolt" from the ball joint dropping and it wrecking, the door bolt broke away from the frame metal of the car. Door hinges are fine. It will have to be repainted anyway. I know it looks good at a distance but really is a cheap paint job.

On the red one, it's special to me because it was my first car. I'm 34 now. I got that car when I was 15. Tracked it down 2 years ago after being without it for 14 years. I'm just saying the Green one is ready to go and way ahead of the red one. However, I can still keep the red one and work on it as I have fun in the green one.

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 11:15 AM
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#19 injectors can’t support the added airflow from the blower, it can be tuned to run ok with them at light throttle cruising but at WOT they’ll be maxed out and the A/F will be dangerously lean, burn holes in every piston and roast exhaust valves lean

The pulley determines the boost from it, so if it’s a 6psi you can get a smaller pulley and up it to 9psi. Neither pic has a shot of the pulley visible for us to tell

-Matt
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 11:32 AM
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From a quick search, it needs 30# injectors; that's what came with the kit.

If it's never been tuned, I can't imagine it runs very well off idle.

If it even idles... at 6psi, it's only going to get ~2/3 the amount of fuel it needs.

Hopefully, the loud knocking sound would let you not burn the pistons, but it won't make that noise for long, lol.

As XR7-4.6 said, Holes all around.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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So at best I need to get some 30lb injectors and that needs to be the first mod it sounds like. Like I said if there’s a way to post the video someone let me know. Sounds like it runs well
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 01:58 PM
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Post your video to a YouTube account and link it here.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 02:05 PM
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Injectors AND a good tune.

The car looks vaguely familiar to me, I remember someone here painted their Allen cover green like that.
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-Matt
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Injectors AND a good tune.

The car looks vaguely familiar to me, I remember someone here painted their Allen cover green like that.
Actually the guy I'm buying it from painted it green. Be cool to know if someone on here actually owned this car so I'd know what was done to it.

I'll add the video.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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96 Ford Thunderbird Crank Up and Idle: Allen Supercharger https://youtu.be/ug8wwEBwQhk

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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From a quick search, it needs 30# injectors; that's what came with the kit.

If it's never been tuned, I can't imagine it runs very well off idle.

If it even idles... at 6psi, it's only going to get ~2/3 the amount of fuel it needs.

Hopefully, the loud knocking sound would let you not burn the pistons, but it won't make that noise for long, lol.

As XR7-4.6 said, Holes all around.

Ok I found a pdf link which I’ll post here: http://jimroal.com/Allen/AllenBrochures.pdf

The brochure says the Thunderbird Kit doesn’t come with #30 injectors nor does it say it needs it. BUT it does come with a fuel pressure regulator and high flow fuel pump.

Now kits for the mustangs, crown Vic etc say they come with #30 lb injectors.

I just want to make sure I put the right thing in there....oh and that’s at 6 psi. 9 psi requires the #30.

Please help me figure this out y’all lol
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 04:17 PM
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A high flow fuel pump and adjustable FPR isn't going to make it run right, it absolutely NEEDS bigger injectors and a tune.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 04:24 PM
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I can't believe it's CARB legal for CA; I didn't think you could do that.



I went to 24lb injectors on my PI swap, just because it might barely go lean at wot, I don't like to take those kind of chances.

I've heard a dropped valve in one of these, I do not want to hear a Holy Piston.

Also, Isn't an M90 what's on the SC?

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 04:26 PM
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Yep, it's pretty undersized for a 4.6
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, it's pretty undersized for a 4.6
I can agree but for $3500 for the whole car I can’t complain. Would you still go with #24 or #30? I mean can it be too much? If not I’ll deff go with #30

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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What size y’all think the pulley is? The 6psi or 9psi?
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 05:55 PM
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#30 for sure. The pulley looks pretty small, so i’d Guess 9psi

-Matt
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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#30 for sure. The pulley looks pretty small, so i’d Guess 9psi
Awesome thanks man! Any reccomrndations? I see Bosch is pretty reasonable

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:19 PM
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I can't believe it's CARB legal for CA; I didn't think you could do that.
As long as you go through the testing to get that CARB EO number proving it won't harm emissions, you are good.
Looking at the list of what's CARB certified that can work with the tbird, it seems like the tbird was "close enough" to the crown vic or mustang to gain certification.
I'd be surprised if you could justify taking your product through this process JUST for the tbird market.


-----
EO: D-423 View PDF
EO Date: 1997-04-09
Manufacturer Name: Allen Engine Development
Device: 6 PSI Supercharger Kit
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1994-1995 Ford Crown Victoria/ Grand Marquis/ Town Car 4.6L 1994-1997 Ford Thunderbird/ Cougar 4.6L 1996-1997 Ford 2-valve Mustang 4.6L Kit includes Eaton supercharger with a 2.85" diameter pulley, intake manifold plenum intake manifold runners, intercooler, throttle body adapter, electric water pump, high flow fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator. EGR valve is relocated between the throttle body and the supercharger intake.

EO: D-423-1 View PDF
EO Date: 1998-03-10
Manufacturer Name: Allen Engine Development
Device: 6 PSI. Supercharger Kit
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
Ford 4.6/5.4 liter applications excluding any vehicle certified to a transitional low emission vehicle (TLEV) or low emission vehicle (LEV) emission standard: 1994/95 Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car, 1994-97 Thunderbird/Cougar, 1996-98 2-valve Mustang, and 1997/98 trucks. The EGR valve is relocated between the throttle body and the supercharger intake. Stock air cleaner is maintained. Eaton supercharger with a 2.85" diameter pulley (passenger cars) or 2.94" diameter pulley (trucks), intake manifold plenum, intake manifold runners, intercooler, throttle body adapter, electric water pump, high flow fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator.

-----
EO: D-423-2 View PDF
EO Date: 1999-03-16
Manufacturer Name: Allen Engine Development
Device: 6 PSI Supercharger Kit
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
Ford 4.6 and 5.4L applications: 1994/95 Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car, 1994 to 1997 Thunderbird/Cougar, 1996 to 1999 Mustang, and 1997 to 1999 trucks The 6 PSI. Supercharger Kit includes the following main components: Eaton supercharger with a 2.94" diameter pulley (4.6L) and a 2.4" pulley (5.4L), intake manifold plenum, intake manifold runners, intercooler, throttle body adapter, electric water pump, high flow fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator. The EGR valve is relocated between the throttle body and the supercharger intake. Stock air cleaner is maintained

EO: D-423-3 View PDF
EO Date: 1999-10-19
Manufacturer Name: Allen Engine Development
Device: 6 PSI. Supercharger Kit
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1994/95 Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town Car, 1994 to 1997 Thunderbird/Cougar, 1996 to 2000 Mustang, and 1997 to 2000 trucks, all equipped with the 4.6/5.4L engine. The 6 PSI. Supercharger Kit includes the following main components: Eaton supercharger with a 2.94" diameter pulley (4.6L) and a 2.4" pulley (5.4L), intake manifold plenum, intake manifold runners, intercooler, throttle body adapter, electric water pump, high flow fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator. The EGR valve is relocated between the throttle body and the supercharger intake. The stock air cleaner is maintained.

EO: D-423-4 View PDF
EO Date: 2002-11-21
Manufacturer Name: Allen Engine Development
Device: Supercharger Kits
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
92-02 CROWN VIC./ GRAND MARQ. / TOWN CAR 4.6L V8 or 92-02 CROWN VIC./ GRAND MARQ. / TOWN CAR 4.6L V8 92-02 CROWN VIC./ GRAND MARQ. / TOWN CAR 4.6L V8 02-03 EXPLORER / MOUNTAINEER 4.6L V8 or 02-03 EXPLORER / MOUNTAINEER 4.6L V8 97-03 F150 / EXPEDITION 4.6L V8 97-03 F150 / EXPEDITION 5.4L V8 97-03 F150 / EXPEDITION 4.6L V8 97-03 F150 / EXPEDITION 5.4L V8 98-03 F250 5.4L V8 98-03 F250 5.4L V8 98-03 F250 6.8L V10 98-03 F250 6.8L V10 98 NAVIGATOR 5.4L V8 98 NAVIGATOR 5.4L V8 00-03 EXCURSION 6.8L V10 00-03 EXCURSION 6.8L V10 00-03 EXCURSION 5.4L V8 00-03 EXCURSION 5.4L V8 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN E150 4.6L V8 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN E150 4.6L V8 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN 5.4L V8 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN 5.4L V8 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN 6.8L V10 97-03 ECONOLINE VAN 6.8L V10 97-03 CLUBWAGON 6.8L V10 97-03 CLUBWAGON 6.8L V10 96-98 MUSTANG 4.6L V8 96-98 MUSTANG 4.6L V8 99-03 MUSTANG 4.6L V8 99-03 MUSTANG 4.6L V8 2001 BULLITT MUSTANG 2001 BULLITT MUSTANG 94-95 T-BIRD / COUGAR 94-95 T-BIRD / COUGAR 96-97 T-BIRD / COUGAR 96-97 T-BIRD / COUGAR The Supercharger Kit includes a new intake manifold assembly that contains an Eaton supercharger and an intercooler, a set of 30 lbs/hr fuel injectors to replace the stock 19 lbs/hr fuel injectors, a voltage step up for the fuel pump, a replacement Ford mass air flow sensor, new aluminum fuel rails, and a new electronic control module (ECM). The stock air cleaner housing is retained. The new intake manifold also acts as a mount for the throttle body, EGR valve, idle air valve bypass, and thermostat. A 180 degree thermostat which replaces the stock 195 degree is included on 1999 through 2003 applications that includes an ECM as part of the supercharger kit

----
EO: D-245-6 View PDF
EO Date: 1996-09-10
Manufacturer Name: BBK Performance
Device: Instacharger Supercharger
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1986-1995 Ford Mustang & Capris 5.0L 1986-1991 Lincoln Mark VII 5.0L 1986-1995 Ford F-Series 5.0L 1986-1993 Ford Thunderbirds 5.0L
EO: D-246 View PDF

---

EO: D-271-7 View PDF
EO Date: 1996-12-24
Manufacturer Name: Kenne Bell, Inc.
Device: TS-1000 Series Supercharger
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1992-1996 Lincolns with a 4.6L engine 1992-1996 Ford Thunderbirds with a 4.6L engine 1992-1995 Ford Crown Victorias with a 4.6L engine 1996 Ford Mustang with a 4.6L engine 1991-1995 Ford Explorers with a 4.0L engine 1991-1995 Ford Rangers with a 4.0L engine 1995-1996 Ford E & F Series Trucks with a 5.0L, 5.8L or 7.5L engine 1997 Ford F Series Trucks with a 4.6L engine System includes Twin Screw supercharger with 3" diameter pulley, intake manifold, fuel management booster, and a new computer chip.
EO: D-271-8 View PDF


---
EO Date: 1996-07-23
Manufacturer Name: Vortech Engineering, Inc.
Device: 5 & 8 PSI S Trim V-1 Gearcharger System
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
4FH218-010S 4FH218-018S 1996 Ford Mustang 2V 4.6L May require installation of Vortech fuel management system on the fuel return line, & supplemental fuel pump, and modifications made to the intake air ducting.
4FK218-010S 4FK218-018S 1996 Ford Mustang 4V 4.6L May require installation of Vortech fuel management system on the fuel return line, & supplemental fuel pump, and modifications made to the intake air ducting.
4FM218-010S 4FM218-018S 1996-1997 Ford F-150 4.6L May require installation of Vortech fuel management system on the fuel return line, & supplemental fuel pump, and modifications made to the intake air ducting.
4FN218-010S 4FN218-018S 1996 Ford Thunderbird/ Lincoln 4.6L May require installation of Vortech fuel management system on the fuel return line, & supplemental fuel pump, and modifications made to the intake air ducting.
EO: D-213-12 View PDF

---
EO: D-213-12 View PDF
EO Date: 1997-09-23
Manufacturer Name: Vortech Engineering, Inc.
Device: 5 and 8 PSI. S and A Trim V-1 Gearcharger System
Device Type: Supercharger System / Supercharger Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
4FH218-010S 4FH218-018S 1996-1997 Ford Mustang 2V equipped with 4.6L engines
4FK218-010S 4FK218-018S 1996-1997 Ford Mustang 4V equipped with 4.6L engines
4FM218-010S 4FM218-018S 1996-1997 Ford F-150/ F-250/ Expedition equipped with 4.6L engines
4FM218-020S 4FM218-028S 1996-1997 Ford F-150/ F-250/ Expedition equipped with 5.4L engines
4FN218-010S 4FN218-018S 1996-1997 Ford T-Bird/ Lincoln VIII equipped with 4.6L engines
4GH218-060 4GH218-060S 4GH218-068 4GH218-068S 1994-1997 GM Camaro/ Firebird equipped with 5.7L engines
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:26 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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We hear such horror stories about the "Evil California", lol.

We have no rules here, basically.

I ran across a name that made me think of you, yesterday; A Gunn was involved in the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos in WWII, and triggered a thought.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:32 PM
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@OP: the car looks like a winner! I'd pick it up if everything else is in proper order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
We hear such horror stories about the "Evil California", lol.
You have to jump through hoops to get big power to be legal here in CA.

But, as for "moving the goal posts", yea, that part sucked on my daily, lol.

And @S4gunn , you sure do research your stuff quite methodically. I love it!

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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On another note unless I had to create a new username in not sure why I’m a newbie. I’ve been researching this page since I was 15. I remember the sketch of the yellow Thunderbird that’s always looked so awesome!

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 06:57 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monettejb View Post
On another note unless I had to create a new username in not sure why I’m a newbie. I’ve been researching this page since I was 15. I remember the sketch of the yellow Thunderbird that’s always looked so awesome!
Post up in the admin thread, with your original info; there's a process to recover your account.

Unless its 94badbird, lol. (That's a joke)


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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-30-2018, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monettejb View Post
On another note unless I had to create a new username in not sure why I’m a newbie.
Post count, you're a 1st gear poster now!

Joe

It's not a 97 Sport, it just looks like one!

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-30-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
We hear such horror stories about the "Evil California", lol.

We have no rules here, basically.

I ran across a name that made me think of you, yesterday; A Gunn was involved in the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos in WWII, and triggered a thought.
The surname Gunn often denotes someone of scottish descent from the Clan Gunn. Those folks were originally vikings who liked Scotland and stayed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Gunn
I have a necktie with their tartan but as an asian guy, yeah, they have nothing to do with me (I also could give two shits about cultural appropriation).

The few times I've heard of someone else with the first name of Gunn, besides me, the person was nordic (short for Gunter) or Indian (short for Guna or something like that). Oh, the sidekick to the John Wayne like truck driver in the ode-to-ramen japanese movie Tampopo (1985) was named Gun as well.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-30-2018, 01:05 PM
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As far as the car is concerned -- if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to get access to the sparkplugs in this car with a 4.6L modular, I would suggest a compression test on all 8 cylinders to check the health of the engine.

That might give you a good indicator of how abused the engine has been given the injector sizing. If you do a test drive, be very observant to any pinging. If you heard it once, the owner probably heard it a lot more.

If you can get to one plug, maybe at least look at the spark plugs to see if the car has been running super lean.

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