JBA crack prevention - TCCoA Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
Eleventeenth Gear Poster
 
Aaron K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoFla
Age: 37
Posts: 3,067
JBA crack prevention

First, if your gonna say…“You should of bought Kooks ya dumbass”…save it. I personally don’t feel like spending $700 on my car for headers at this point. If/when I go all out on the car, when it’s not a daily driver, and put down the money for an SC, then I’ll get some Kooks. Until then I am willing to take the risk of these cracking somewhere down the road. I consider this a learning experience and I’ll leave it at that

I bought a pair of the ssautochrome, wanna be JBA, headers off eBay for $95 shipped to my door. I plan to modify them to help prevent them from cracking and would like input from those who have had their JBAs crack on them. On the passenger side I know the welds on last cylinder like to crack, and that’s the only crack that I have seen mentioned. Do they crack anywhere else? Besides rewelding that area, what else could be helpful? Possibly some additional bracing? Also, I have read that having the face of the headers milled flat would be helpful as well and plan to have that done as the very last step. Any positive input will be helpful; also any tips/suggestions on the best way to weld these without causing a lot of warpage or additional damage would be helpful as well. I hope to have them torqued down to a 4.6 head when they are welded. Thanks.

Sold = 96 Thunderbird
Aaron K. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 06:37 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,196
i just got a set of those too from ebay and put them on last week along with a flowmaster catback. before i put them on, i had the face milled down so the chrome was gone so it would adhere to the gasket better. that's about all i did to mine and i'm pretty pleased at the results i got. there's definately more power there. i guess i also got rid of the chrome on the end of the collector as well.
whitecoug is offline  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 07:41 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 49
the kooks factor strikes again
ArcadiA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 08:47 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
Check with Chadg, his JBA's cracked, and Blake-Vortec recently posted that his blew out so badly, his car is down and out and he's goin back to stock manifolds. Contact them, for starters..

Good luck with your project. Buying something, even cheaply, that you know in advance is gonna break, then spending 6 or so hours putting them on your car, only to have to replace them down the road and actually telling everyone that you are doing it is a gutsy move.

It appeared from the pictures I saw of those headers that the primary ports are a bit smaller than the ports on the heads, and someone posted that as fact, perhaps you can confirm or dispell that notion, when you do the install.

Just before I left Moroso the other night, you nailed your dial-in right on the money. Good job... (we won't talk about the color of the light )... Are you planning on getting your 3.73's installed anytime soon??? if so you're gonna have to make some dial-in adjustments on the 30th....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)

Last edited by 96 GoldBird; 12-05-2003 at 08:53 PM.
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 09:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,924
I know that adding metal will help, but will it prevent the cracks permanently?
Pooperscooper is offline  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 09:10 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Age: 58
Posts: 453
They may hold up on a n/a car. Mine cracked,chad,Mike Siska,danners,richardm
We all have or had blowers on our, May be the stress from the power or the high egt temp. For 95 bucks worth a shot. They crack across the top of the collector Good luck

mazda6 Sport- 06
100hp worth of Stickers coming soon
Blake-vortech is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 09:25 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
Did Chad's crack before, or after the blower??? I know he added "Did your JBA's crack today?" to his sig, but don't remember when....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2003, 11:35 PM
PostWhore
 
DirtyBird46's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern IL
Age: 38
Posts: 1,116
Send a message via AIM to DirtyBird46
Save your money and time. I am not a expert by any means but I learned not to buy JBA's.
-Jim
DirtyBird46 is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 12:55 AM
Like Titles Matter
Moderator
 
kdanner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin, TX Ya'll
Age: 51
Posts: 2,129
Mine cracked before I ever had a blower, so did Dan's.

1996 Thunderbird LX- [email protected] NA
1998 GT - [email protected]
2001 Lightning - [email protected]
1996 GT 248A - [email protected]?
2011 GT - [email protected] 180 MPH at the Texas Mile


generated by sloganizer.net
kdanner is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 01:16 AM
Seasoned Veteran Poster
 
Dubbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ND/MN
Age: 35
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally posted by kdanner
Mine cracked before I ever had a blower, so did Dan's.
Okay, I think this was mentioned before and I was wondering if anyone went anywhere with it...

Someone mentioned putting a short piece of flex pipe after the headers (or I suppose it'd be best after the cats if applicable) to account for any flex between chassis/exhaust/engine that would put strain on the headers. Granted they shouldn't crack in the first place, but wouldn't this still be a solution?
....or is there "warpage" per se in the header it's self that causes the cracking?

And goldbird, chad's cracked after the blower....

-jw

MidwestThundercats.com
15.183 @ 91.19mph - 2.236 60' :: nothing but a tune and 103s
178.7RWHP :: 244.2RWTQ
Sold

Driving a Chevy, next is a Mustang.
Dubbsy is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 11:33 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 809
Send them out to a head shop and get them to run them over their belt sanding table so they are atleast close to flat. Second be sure when you bolt up the exhaust to them you don't put stress on the headers. I used a couple of SS flex couplings when I did mine. If you want to PM me your e mail I'll send you a picture of them.
scott is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 11:47 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Age: 58
Posts: 453
Richard M Tried that and they still cracked again about a month later

bc

mazda6 Sport- 06
100hp worth of Stickers coming soon
Blake-vortech is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 04:03 AM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SouthEastern PA
Posts: 1,112
It sounds like the cracking is mostly because of the headers themselves trying to pull apart when they are heated up, then cooled down, ad infinitum. Maybe its not enough bracing. (too loose?) Maybe the headers don't have enough internal stress relief built in. (too stiff?) Maybe the tubing is bad. I dunno. I'm no forensic metallurgist.

-------------------

Steve

Owner, 1990 Thunderbird SC, white w/ gray cloth
S_Mazza is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 06:37 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
Sounds like if he figures out a way to prevent JBA's from cracking, he oughtta patent it, and sell the patent to JBA.

Certainly passing it on to others here would be most beneficial...

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 07:38 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
J.Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,009
I am not sure that the exhaust temperature would cause the problem. Sounds to me more like it can be an exhaust gas flow issue. The forces generated by the gas flow can increase stress. I would assume that under a certain HP number we have seen no failures. I am curious if anyone knows what the lowest horsepower some had on their car where the headers cracked?

Once the exact cause is identified and made repeatable a solution can formulated. A fix may be as simple as selecting a better grade of material, adding more metal in certain places, slight changes in the collectors to distribute the stress better.

J.Miller
East Coast Rolling Thunder!!!!
Official Eastern and Central PA chapter of the SCCoA!
J.Miller is offline  
post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 07:38 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally posted by 96 GoldBird
Sounds like if he figures out a way to prevent JBA's from cracking, he oughtta patent it, and sell the patent to JBA.
Aaron, I think we better find a way to fix these things.

When you get them in, see if a magnet sticks to em.
Pooperscooper is offline  
post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:00 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally posted by J.Miller
The forces generated by the gas flow can increase stress. I would assume that under a certain HP number we have seen no failures. I am curious if anyone knows what the lowest horsepower some had on their car where the headers cracked?

.
Sorry but not a chance. The exhaust pressure is minimal even in a blowen car.
The reason we see so many cracked JBA headers is it the ONLY header we see
that has been on a MN12 for more than a few months. Oh and yes the quality of them is poor. Go to a Mustang board or a Camero board and look around
you will see that all makes of headers crack ...............period. Just wait till we start seeing cracked Kooks.
scott is offline  
post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:32 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
I gotta believe it is the rapid extreme temperature changes in combination with vibration and the torque of the engines on the mounts, NOT exhaust pressure that causes failure.

While it is true that all makes of headers crack, not every single header sold by most companies fail. In the time I have cruised this site, I have not seen anyone stand up and say that their JBA's didn't crack. I am sure that there are some out there, but they certainly seem to bee the silent minority.

Kooks has been making headers for many cars, for many years and I am sure they have had their failures, and I expect some of the MN12 Kooks headers will someday fail, I only hope that Kooks success rate and and reputation with the other headers they make carries over into ours.... you are right though, only time will tell..... But you can sure see the difference in the quality of manufacture, that's gotta improve the odds....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:38 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 809
The Kooks are a very good header and they may not break...................but I have heard of kooks breaking before. Bottom line is if you don't get the JBAs or SSA autochrome headers re machined they WILL break. The flanges are not flat.
If you get them machined they MAY last a while. I know it's stupid to have to machine a new header but that life.
scott is offline  
post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:50 AM
AED Specialist
 
A-Train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Somewhere in NJ
Age: 42
Posts: 1,277
I think we know it's always in the same spot that they crack? If so, then we can examine the design. I bought a set of used JBA's from Don Teeple and his were cracked on the passenger side header on the shortest tube that is closest to the collector.

The design of a header in general leads to possibility of cracks or breaks. I believe this is why Ford got away from headers or tubular manifolds like they used on the 5.0L Mustangs. They couldn't afford the idea of all them exhaust leaks nor did they have enough room on most cars to design a proper header.

So we have to look at the problems on the JBA MN12 design itself. 1) Do other JBA headers crack? I find it hard to swallow that JBA could get away with this. I mean they offer headers for the Mustang 3.8L/5.0L/4.6L and Cobra. Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, and more. Do they have this problem? I doubt it but I haven't done enough research.

The MN12 JBA headers are UNEQUAL length so each tube is just long enough to reach it's destination. The longer tubes have a chance to move more than the shorter tubes. The 3/8" thick laser cut flange should be enough to secure the header to the gasket and block. I don't think there is movement there.

I know many people have tried different gasket materials. Some used the crushable Ford exhaust manifold gaskets while others used Percy's. I have to rule this out as well.

So what are we left with? We have the shortest tube of the entire bunch doesn't even go into JBA's "FIRECONE COLLECTOR" from the same angle as the others. Its all by itself and enters from almost the side of the collector. Then the EGR tube exits right after it. So you basically have a giant weld holding two tubes to a collector. Factor in the movement of the material (hot/cold), the exhaust movement and engine movement and you have a recipe for disaster.

I believe this is why they started cutting the flange and using the brace. The JBA's I have must be old since they do not have the cut flange nor the brace. Yet, I hear even that didn't help as they are still cracking. So my theory is they will all crack just based on the nature of their design. I don't think there is a way to stop it.

A-Train

2008 Acura TSX (5AT)
2012 Honda Ridgeline RTL (w/Navi)

Ex toy: 1995 T-Bird LX - ALLEN supercharged, 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L PI engine, lot's of goodies...
12.74 @ 109.45 mph (BEST E.T. BEST MPH)
325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE) on a dynojet
Tuned by Jerry W. from SCT
A-Train is offline  
post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:50 AM
PostWhore
 
dode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Age: 41
Posts: 1,369
Ummmm....ok, first of all were these headers manufactured by JBA? I don't think they were. If this is the case, then they may not have the problems that the JBA's have. It is very possible that this is a manufacturing/material problem and not a design problem. For that price, put them on and run them. Just my two cents.

John

1997 Mercury Cougar XR7
1992 Thunderbird GT 5.0L
dode is offline  
post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:54 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
Quote:
Originally posted by dode
Ummmm....ok, first of all were these headers manufactured by JBA? I don't think they were.
John
There have been several posts about these headers in the past and the consensus is that they are JBA headers chromed and re-labeled and sold by SS Autochrome.

SS Autochrome does not manufacture these headers themselves, and if anyone else does (besides Kooks) no one on this site seems to know about it, and that is hard to believe.

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 11:57 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 809
Also they cut the new style flange after all the welding is done and the flange face is machined. Sprooooing ! So to say it once more they aren't flat, and you just imagine how much stress it puts in them to tighten them down and suck them flat.
scott is offline  
post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 12:45 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
How about a pair of Percy's soft gaskets on each side to fill in some of the "gaps"...??? just a thought

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Eleventeenth Gear Poster
 
Aaron K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoFla
Age: 37
Posts: 3,067
I think the problem is a combo of a poor design and poor manufacturing. Like A-Train said the shortest tube of them all doesnt enter the collector like the rest of them do. It almost looks like the forgot about the last tube and instead of starting over with the design they cut up the collector, stuck the last tube in and said the hell with it.

I have the headers sitting here next to me now and some of the welds look okay, and some look like they let some kid have at it. However, it looks like they have added a small piece of metal around the bottom of the 4th tube, in the area that they like to crack. Monday or Tuesday I'll take some pics of them and may do some photoshopping of one of my ideas.

Sold = 96 Thunderbird
Aaron K. is offline  
post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 07:22 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
J.Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,009
Please be forthwarned that I am about to ramble some ideas. Sorry…

Scott, you are right. There is no way that they can keep the surface flat after all that welding. The heat from the welding alone can warp them. Machining the surface flat can help. But I will like to point out that there are other factors that can cause failure (besides the ones already discussed) in machined parts:

One of them is Surface imperfections. You can machine one side of the surface flat but if the other side is not machined you still risk failure. For example, one of the tricks for removing stress in material is polishing. A surface can have a microscopic crack that increases in size when stress is applied. If this crack is smoothed or polished the imperfection is removed and the chance of that crack propagating is limited. A solution will be to polish the surface to remove imperfections. Methods to remove surface imperfections is:

1. Mechanical polishing to a RA finish.
2. Electro chemical polishing to remove surface imperfections. This is better done after mechanical polishing.

Speaking of imperfections. Welds should have equal spread in bead distance, have no pitting and be ground smooth to remove imperfections.

Then there is the slight chance of chemical reactions. Chemicals in the exhaust can react with the material of the headers. I would think that this is more of a problem with the selection of the welding rod than anything else. You can even see dielectric reactions with welding rods and the headers.

The reason why I limit the effect (I do not rule it out) of exhaust temperatures is the fact that metals can be heat treated. Heat treating actually makes the material stronger. True material is generally heat treated at a high temperature and allowed to cool slowly. But if you break in the headers, kind of like you do rotors you should see them last longer. I say try heating getting them good and hot. Let them rest over night. Do it for a few days and they can get stronger. Well, maybe not the welds…

Torque has to be a small factor at lower HP since the whole exhaust is on hangers with some flex. But at higher HP (and stock motor mounts) the flex of the exhaust becomes more of a resistance that can add to the puzzle. I wonder if anyone experienced cracked headers with JL's aluminum motor mounts? If they did then motor torque should be ruled out since those things do not move much.

More about the design of the headers that can cause failure. Flow through unequal length tubes can cause stresses where you would think there is little especially if they have the same inside area.

If you look at a water pipe with a tee where the flow merges. The flow of the liquid takes the path of the least resistance. Given the same output conditions, if there is a higher pressure flow (short tubes) the lower pressure flow (longer tubes) requires more back pressure to force it's self into the collector pipe. In the end the flow can actually cause what is known as torque on the headers. This torque will most likely be at the motor side.

Maybe there is nothing practical that can be done to improve them… Humm, I will like to see some pictures…

J.Miller
East Coast Rolling Thunder!!!!
Official Eastern and Central PA chapter of the SCCoA!
J.Miller is offline  
post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 08:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,924
Does anyone know what material these headers are made out of?
Pooperscooper is offline  
post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 08:04 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 809
Low carbon low alloy steal.
scott is offline  
post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
Eleventeenth Gear Poster
 
Aaron K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoFla
Age: 37
Posts: 3,067
I wanted to take the pics in the daylight to reduce flash glare but I got bored this evening...so instead of creating a boredom thread, I took some pics

This first one shows where I'd like to add a piece of thick metal, I would add one on each side. What do you guys think?



I originally thought they added metal around the 4th tube for more strength, but after further inspection it looks like I'm wrong. From looking on the inside through the collector it looks like they cut the hole for the 4th tube to big and added some to fix their mistake



This just shows the face of the header. I guess they weld the tubing to the face from the inside and then grind it down to a "flat" surface.


Sold = 96 Thunderbird
Aaron K. is offline  
post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-07-2003, 09:30 PM
Veteran Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 803
I personally don't think the weld quality is good enough for the type of structure.
A buttress(sp?) to rigidize the transition zone is a good idea. I found on my recently departed passenger side header, that the repair weld cracked the same way. Not from the tube but from the collector. If you look at all the other tubes, they are expanding rearward as they heat and the short #4 is welded perpendicular to that force. It wants to expand into the collector across its flow axis.

Like jumping on a shovel as you wiggle it back and forth to drive it into the ground. Except in this instance you are standing on the shovel(#4 tube) and the ground is going back and forth.(collector)
Something's got to give. Since the other 3 tubes are shaped different, I think they could handle some movement laterally , but with a solid buttress, you could almost eliminate the overall effect. Hence the two little bars to try to restrain. Problem is the bars , with the same coefficient of expansion basically, are much too long. If they are growing 2 times the length of the single runner tube, what good are they??? I have my exhaust rigidly hung from the trans so it moves with the engine torquing, like factory.

I am going to temp myself to make some midlength unit out of these. If the #4 tube were to enter the collector in the same fashion as the others, I think this is no longer an issue. Cut 5-6 inches off the exhaust and reflare it.
But the extra metal would be a good next try too.
Dropping the Kmember and raising the motor is not hard after a couple rounds.

RichardM

Last edited by RichardM; 12-07-2003 at 09:38 PM.
RichardM is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome