quickness - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8
quickness

hi all , just bought a 97 bird 4.6 v8 with 36000 miles on it , feels kind of sluggish off the line , would a chip take care of that . other than that what a great ride . thanks
judge is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 10:53 AM
Refrigerator Raider Hater
Moderator
 
GreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vermont
Age: 36
Posts: 11,719
Some shorter (numerically higher) gears, or a higher stall TC would help. A chip would help also, but the gears or TC would be most effective.




Matt "Looks Like Egon" Davis
96 Alpine Green V8
98 Audi A8 4.2Q in Racing Green Totalled
02 Audi A8L 4.2Q in Black

I buy my OEM Ford parts at 10% over dealer cost from Steve in White Bear Lake, MN.
You drive "like a man possessed"... by a woman!
GreenBird is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 01:15 PM
Sheepish
 
AverageJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 4,085
Send a message via AIM to AverageJoe Send a message via Yahoo to AverageJoe
Greenbird took the words out of my mouth. The gears and TC will make it feel like a totally different car and the chip will only accent that.

B Team - More skill, more results. A is only a starting point before progressing to B.

Member of the 'B-Team'. Finishing jobs the 'A-Team' can't handle.
AverageJoe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8
thanks for the reply . so if i go with maybe 355 gears that will make a nice difference?and do i need anything else besides a cooler and speedo . also , what would figure a shop would charge for something like that ? thanks . any other tips for this vehicle is very welcome.
judge is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 06:11 PM
Sheepish
 
AverageJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 4,085
Send a message via AIM to AverageJoe Send a message via Yahoo to AverageJoe
3.55s will make a nice difference in town and still be good for highway.

3.73s will make a nicer difference both in town and on the highway, but not the best choice if you do a lot of highway travel.

4.10s if you want to get really hairy in town and do very little highway duty.

You can expect generally $300-500 labor for a gear install with the pumpkin in the car due to the fact that they have to remove the pumpkin. Shops make a killing on gear install labor.

B Team - More skill, more results. A is only a starting point before progressing to B.

Member of the 'B-Team'. Finishing jobs the 'A-Team' can't handle.
AverageJoe is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 06:45 PM
Refrigerator Raider Hater
Moderator
 
GreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vermont
Age: 36
Posts: 11,719
Quote:
Originally posted by AverageJoe
You can expect generally $300-500 labor for a gear install with the pumpkin in the car due to the fact that they have to remove the pumpkin. Shops make a killing on gear install labor.
and with the gears costing $130 to $200, it becomes a better deal to buy the FRPP pumpkin.




Matt "Looks Like Egon" Davis
96 Alpine Green V8
98 Audi A8 4.2Q in Racing Green Totalled
02 Audi A8L 4.2Q in Black

I buy my OEM Ford parts at 10% over dealer cost from Steve in White Bear Lake, MN.
You drive "like a man possessed"... by a woman!
GreenBird is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 06:51 PM
Sheepish
 
AverageJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 4,085
Send a message via AIM to AverageJoe Send a message via Yahoo to AverageJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by GreenBird


and with the gears costing $130 to $200, it becomes a better deal to buy the FRPP pumpkin.
Yes indeed, unless you're dead set on 3.55s or 4.10s

B Team - More skill, more results. A is only a starting point before progressing to B.

Member of the 'B-Team'. Finishing jobs the 'A-Team' can't handle.
AverageJoe is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 09:05 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
I would add a J-mod to that mix if you can swing it... it won't help you get off the line, but it'll make your 1-2 and 2-3 shifts snappier. When you upgrade the TC and gears and start to feel that power off the line, you'll want to feel it when you upshift. The J-mod will help you to feel that power all the way through the gears...

Just a suggestion from a guy that always wants more.....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 01:54 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Plainville, CT
Posts: 109
Send a message via AIM to melecat96
Quote:
Originally posted by AverageJoe
3.55s will make a nice difference in town and still be good for highway.

3.73s will make a nicer difference both in town and on the highway, but not the best choice if you do a lot of highway travel.

4.10s if you want to get really hairy in town and do very little highway duty.

You can expect generally $300-500 labor for a gear install with the pumpkin in the car due to the fact that they have to remove the pumpkin. Shops make a killing on gear install labor.

What do u mean by nicer difference and still b good for highway etc.. How exactly do 3.73s effect ure ride

93 Mark VIII (Cobra Mustang drivetrain)
03 Focus ZX3
96 Cougar Xr7 (sold)
melecat96 is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 02:10 PM
Boom.

Moderator
 
Palmguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Niceville, FL
Age: 33
Posts: 5,238
Generally speaking, the lower number the gear is, the less performance oriented it is. By the same token your engine will have a lower operating speed on the highway with a numerically lower gear.

Your engine will turn less RPMs with 3.55s than 3.73s than 4.10s. 4.10s are more performance oriented than 3.73s and than 3.55s.

The numerically higher the gear, the lower your top speed and the sooner you reach driveline critical speed.

TCCoABAMFC - Founding Member
Official Member of the TCCoA Evil Underground Moderator Conspiracy
TCCoA Gun Club

2003 Mach 1 - 4.6L DOHC V8/4R70W

1995 Cougar XR7 - PI 4.6L SOHC V8
Palmguy is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 02:24 PM
Sweet T
 
SanDiegoLXBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Over At the Frankenstein Place
Age: 35
Posts: 3,452
Send a message via AIM to SanDiegoLXBird
Especially with JustinH still selling the FRPP centersections for 585 shipped to your door!

1994 SC 5-Speed
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2253560
1996 4.6L R.I.P December 02, 2004
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/560841
SanDiegoLXBird is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 02:38 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palm City, FL
Age: 69
Posts: 2,577
The kind of performance they are talking about is not better gas mileage and less engine noise and lower highway engine speeds.

3.73 gears "out-perform" 3.55's in terms of better launch and acceleration from dead stop to top end. Highway gas mileage decreases as the numbers get higher with 3.08 giving the highest mileage and 4.30 the worst. While the difference in gas mileage is significant between the 3.08 and the 3.73.. it is not so significant between the 3.55 and the 3.73, but the difference is performance is.

The 3.73 pumpkin they are recommending as being a more economical way to change gears also has an aluminum housing for less weight and heat retention, and it will actuall cost less to do the pumpkin swap than to buy the gears and pay the labor for the swap, 'cause putting diffential gears in is not something you want to do your self, unless you know what you are doing, but the pumpkin swap is a breeze...

Choices like this always depend on an individual's goals. How "unsluggish do you want it to be, compared to what down sides there may be." 3.55 is a good middle of the road choice, but will cost more to do... 3.73 is a more 'radical' change (but not real radical) cheaper to do (generally speaking), higher performing (as described above), but you will decrease your highway gas mileage, have a bit more engine noise when you drive and your engine will be running at higher rpm to attain the same speeds... also with the 3.73, you're top speed will be lower, but don't worry about that, you'll never see top speed anyway... without a chip, you won't see over 105mph, and anything over that is dangerous without some other upgrades....

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)

Last edited by 96 GoldBird; 01-04-2004 at 02:51 AM.
96 GoldBird is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 03:33 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 493
What years came with 3.55s stock? According to the gear list, I have X - 3.55's with trac-lok (but the trac-lok is burnt out).

94' LX 3.8 here.
Vegeta99 is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 03:46 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 294
To give you an idea, driveline critical speed with 3:73's and stock tire diameter turns out just over 80 mph. Without a chip you won't be able to go over that. You really shouldn't go over that without a lightweight driveshaft anyway. The big dif is that you will be able to get to top end in about 1/4 mile after the change.
BMan
BMan is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 04:49 PM
Boom.

Moderator
 
Palmguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Niceville, FL
Age: 33
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally posted by Vegeta99
What years came with 3.55s stock? According to the gear list, I have X - 3.55's with trac-lok (but the trac-lok is burnt out).

94' LX 3.8 here.
A 3.55 locker is a K code, not X. If you have X I would guess that it is a 3.27 TL. No MN12 came with stock 3.55s.

TCCoABAMFC - Founding Member
Official Member of the TCCoA Evil Underground Moderator Conspiracy
TCCoA Gun Club

2003 Mach 1 - 4.6L DOHC V8/4R70W

1995 Cougar XR7 - PI 4.6L SOHC V8
Palmguy is offline  
post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 04:55 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,040
Palmguy is correct. 3.27 was the highest gear installed buy the factory in a MN-12.
Cam94 is offline  
post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 05:36 PM
Sheepish
 
AverageJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 4,085
Send a message via AIM to AverageJoe Send a message via Yahoo to AverageJoe
And the 3.27 codes for MN12s are E and XE. Mine's an E, I don't know why there's two codes for the same setup but there seems to be. Oh well...

B Team - More skill, more results. A is only a starting point before progressing to B.

Member of the 'B-Team'. Finishing jobs the 'A-Team' can't handle.
AverageJoe is offline  
post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 10:38 PM
PostWhore
 
94t-birdlx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Scituate, RI
Age: 36
Posts: 1,131
Send a message via AIM to 94t-birdlx Send a message via MSN to 94t-birdlx
Where do you find the code?
94t-birdlx is offline  
post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 11:51 PM
Refrigerator Raider Hater
Moderator
 
GreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vermont
Age: 36
Posts: 11,719
Quote:
Originally posted by Palmguy
The numerically higher the gear, the lower your top speed and the sooner you reach driveline critical speed.
Not true. an mn12 will reach a higher top speed with 3.73s than 3.27s.




Matt "Looks Like Egon" Davis
96 Alpine Green V8
98 Audi A8 4.2Q in Racing Green Totalled
02 Audi A8L 4.2Q in Black

I buy my OEM Ford parts at 10% over dealer cost from Steve in White Bear Lake, MN.
You drive "like a man possessed"... by a woman!
GreenBird is offline  
post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-03-2004, 12:30 AM
Formerly Fdawg97LX
 
Fdawg03SVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Medford, MA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,186
Send a message via AIM to Fdawg03SVT
Quote:
Originally posted by AverageJoe
And the 3.27 codes for MN12s are E and XE. Mine's an E, I don't know why there's two codes for the same setup but there seems to be. Oh well...
yea mine is XE, i always wondered why they used 2 different codes.


Frank

2007 Dodge Ram 1500
2008 Suzuki GSX-R1000

Previous Rides:
2003 Suzuki GSX-R750
2003 Mustang Cobra 10th Anniversary - 11.2 @ 130
1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 - 13.7 @ 103
1993 Thunderbird LX 3.8 - Slow
1990 Thunderbird 3.8 - Slower
Fdawg03SVT is offline  
post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-03-2004, 01:00 AM
Sheepish
 
AverageJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 4,085
Send a message via AIM to AverageJoe Send a message via Yahoo to AverageJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by GreenBird


Not true. an mn12 will reach a higher top speed with 3.73s than 3.27s.
Thats simply due to the torque multiplication factor of the steeper gears. The car has a higher theoretical top speed with the 3.27s than with the 3.73s if you remove all drag and go on pure numbers.

B Team - More skill, more results. A is only a starting point before progressing to B.

Member of the 'B-Team'. Finishing jobs the 'A-Team' can't handle.
AverageJoe is offline  
post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-03-2004, 11:48 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Plainville, CT
Posts: 109
Send a message via AIM to melecat96
thanx guyz that helps alot... i think ill b swaping in some 3.73s cuz i need more accel... i dont care bout a top speed

93 Mark VIII (Cobra Mustang drivetrain)
03 Focus ZX3
96 Cougar Xr7 (sold)
melecat96 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome