Traction Assist - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-29-2003, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,196
Traction Assist

Is there any way to change the traction assist so that it defaults to the off position each time the car is started rather than to having it start in the on position each time??
whitecoug is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 02:20 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
J.Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,009
You can always wire a 24VDC normally closed relay after the switch. A single position relay will typically have four connections. Two to power / ground the relay and two for the switch input and output. Make sure that the relay is rated for the proper amount of amps.

Use the power from the "Traction Assist" switch to energize the relay. Then run a fused wire from the battery to the NC switch position of the relay and to the traction control system.

As far as I know a Bird with traction control does not have a limited slip rear end (IE: It is a one legger) so it does not have that much traction to begin with. There is a limit on what it can do. In addition you can always turn off the Traction Control when you turn off the OD switch when you want to go faster.

If you insist, why not tie both the traction control and OD switch on a 2 pole relay connected to the button on the shifter?

EDIT: THE RELAY SHOULD BE NORMALLY CLOSED.

J.Miller
East Coast Rolling Thunder!!!!
Official Eastern and Central PA chapter of the SCCoA!

Last edited by J.Miller; 12-30-2003 at 04:31 PM.
J.Miller is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 03:12 PM
Formerly Fdawg97LX
 
Fdawg03SVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Medford, MA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,186
Send a message via AIM to Fdawg03SVT
Quote:
Originally posted by J.Miller
You can always wire a 24VDC normally open relay after the switch. A single position relay will typically have four connections. Two to power / ground the relay and two for the switch input and output. Make sure that the relay is rated for the proper amount of amps.

Use the power from the "Traction Assist" switch to energize the relay. Then run a fused wire from the battery to the NO switch position of the relay and to the traction control system.

As far as I know a Bird with traction control does not have a limited slip rear end (IE: It is a one legger) so it does not have that much traction to begin with. There is a limit on what it can do. In addition you can always turn off the Traction Control when you turn off the OD switch when you want to go faster.

If you insist, why not tie both the traction control and OD switch on a 2 pole relay connected to the button on the shifter?
hey just a quick question. i know cars with traction assist dont have limited slip. i was just wondering if you knew why?

Frank

2007 Dodge Ram 1500
2008 Suzuki GSX-R1000

Previous Rides:
2003 Suzuki GSX-R750
2003 Mustang Cobra 10th Anniversary - 11.2 @ 130
1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 - 13.7 @ 103
1993 Thunderbird LX 3.8 - Slow
1990 Thunderbird 3.8 - Slower
Fdawg03SVT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 03:15 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Age: 36
Posts: 2,129
Send a message via AIM to chrisnack
T/A does not function above 35mph if i remember correctly, could be 30mph.. can't remember...

And yes J Miller, no car came stock with T/A and a trak-lok rear end. And T/A should be turned off if you have a trak-lok rear since you are working against it.

Our T/A system uses the brakes to slow down the slipping wheel. But it's also rather slow to respond. All in all, it's an "ok" system.

I would think you can change the EEC as well to default to off on the T/A, similar to the O/D.. but not many people have messed with that.

Otherwise.. yup.. a realy on the switch would probably do it... it's on my list of projects to come up with a good way to default the T/A and O/D to off, but haven't had the time to work on it yet..

NSN Motorsports
http://www.nsnmotorsports.com
"Fordless" - But I do have alot of Mercon V laying around...
'96 Eagle Talon ESI

Parts ---> Dan Newman - Town & Country Ford - 800-847-2047
chrisnack is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,196
Thanks for the replies. I do think that it is 35 mph when it shuts down. I was just wondering about it b/c its terrible in city driving when it snow or is slick. It also sucks on gravels...I live out in the country so got plenty of them. When I want it off its usually too late to turn it off but most of the time in the winter, I'll shut it off b/f I move, if i remember to.
whitecoug is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 04:24 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
J.Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,009
The Traction control is controlled by the ABS control module. It has its own diagnostics and is not serviceable. The ABS control module operates under normal driving, during ABS braking and traction control cycling. . The traction control system operates at vehicle speeds up to approximately 34 mph.

During acceleration, if any of the rear wheels lose traction or spin, the traction control system will close the appropriate isolation valves and operate a pump motor.

1. If the driver applies the brakes during cycling, the system will automatically shut down.
2. The traction Control system monitors usage and will shut down if it is used excessively to prevent over heating of the rear brakes. There is a time delay before it starts up again. This cool down time perior depends on how often the brakes are used during the cool down time.
3. Anti-lock braking is still fully functional during the cool down period. The indicator lamp in the traction control switch will be illuminated during this cool down period.
4. All faults are viewed with the DTC's and stored in the Traction Control module memory.

J.Miller
East Coast Rolling Thunder!!!!
Official Eastern and Central PA chapter of the SCCoA!
J.Miller is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 09:43 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Silver95Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gouldsboro, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,178
I can't figure mine out... My ABS works just fine, but my Traction Assist never did anything. It spins like crazy in the snow, I've done small burnouts at the dragstrip, hard launches, anything you can think of... and it never did a thing. I guess I'll be better off that way because I want to put a trak-lok rear in anyway... but weird stuff.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
Silver95Bird is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2003, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,196
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Mine never seems like its working, but when it kicks in and I'm spinning on gravel etc, the volt gauge on mine goes back and forth like crazy. That's the only way I know its working.
whitecoug is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2003, 12:48 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cullman, AL
Age: 56
Posts: 7,758
Send a message via AIM to 94 Daily Driven 4.6L
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisnack
...And yes J Miller, no car came stock with T/A and a trak-lok rear end. And T/A should be turned off if you have a trak-lok rear since you are working against it...
I assume that you are talking about the MN-12 platform only?

Because I know for a fact that my 97 Mark VIII LSC has both Traction Control and Traction Lock.

But I think it as a much more involved system than the Gen I Mark VIII's or the MN-12's.

My Mark has a "spinning wheel" emblem on the dash that lights up when the TC is operating.

Anyone know for a fact that the Gen II is different than the Gen I's?

97 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC (Chip'd, 3.73 T/L... so far... )
97 Ford Aspire (Slow, but getting 36 mpg (f'n Ethenol!! )
84 F250 Dually w/6.9L Diesel (7.3L IDI pending)
73 Mercury Cougar Convertible w/351C 4V (Partially Restored)
69 F100 LWB w/460 Engine
76 Glastron Carlson 23' Jet Boat w/460 CJ Engine
94 Daily Driven 4.6L is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 05:18 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Silver95Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gouldsboro, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,178
maybe the 97 MK8 was the first to get the 2nd gen of that feature too... because the new Mustang GTs have both. I know my Dad's 01 GT has both TA and trak-lok.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
Silver95Bird is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 07:58 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Silver95Bird
I can't figure mine out... My ABS works just fine, but my Traction Assist never did anything. It spins like crazy in the snow, I've done small burnouts at the dragstrip, hard launches, anything you can think of... and it never did a thing. I guess I'll be better off that way because I want to put a trak-lok rear in anyway... but weird stuff.

I always turned the T/A off, it only kicked in when I didn't want it to. Ever get it sideways in the rain? The T/A would kick in just as I started to dial in some counter steer and throw the whole drift off. Use to tick me off no end. The ABS actuator would make a lot of noise in the slippery stuff but the tires still spun and heat the hell out of the rear brakes. I always thought Ford got it backwards and needed to put a switch in to turn it on instead of off. Oh well, gotta protect the older people-god forbid they get the car sideways.

BTW, T/A is no substitute for good snow tires. Even with snows on, last year was a stuggle. My Grand Marquis is much better in snow than the Bird was, and it seems better balanced as far as drifting goes. People DO get out of your way when you come down the road at them sideways.
SOHCammer is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 09:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,739
Here is a good question, How to you turn off the T/A for good? Will just removing the panel with the switch turn it off?
BlackTbird96 is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 09:55 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Silver95Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gouldsboro, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 3,178
Hey Steve! Didn't know you were around, havent heard from you in a while. There's nothing like having a little more wieght in the back of the car. How's the GM working out for ya? I've been pretty good in the rain, but it is a ton trickier in the snow. I can't wait to get the trak-lok in this car. You should check out modulardepot.com if you havent already, good info there and not as much BS as the corral/stoogenet.


I'd think removing the switch would leave it permanently on, not off.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
Silver95Bird is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 10:25 PM
The Parts Guy
 
racecougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Imperial, Missouri (near St. L
Age: 36
Posts: 7,265
Quote:
Originally posted by BlackTbird96
Here is a good question, How to you turn off the T/A for good? Will just removing the panel with the switch turn it off?
Here are some threads to check out:

Adding Traction Assist

permanently diasble traction assist


-Rod

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
racecougar is offline  
post #15 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 10:45 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Age: 36
Posts: 2,129
Send a message via AIM to chrisnack
Quote:
Originally posted by 94 Daily Driven 4.6L

I assume that you are talking about the MN-12 platform only?

Yeah, I was referring to Tbirds only...

NSN Motorsports
http://www.nsnmotorsports.com
"Fordless" - But I do have alot of Mercon V laying around...
'96 Eagle Talon ESI

Parts ---> Dan Newman - Town & Country Ford - 800-847-2047
chrisnack is offline  
post #16 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 06:27 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
J.Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,009
Quote:
Originally posted by 94 Daily Driven 4.6L

I assume that you are talking about the MN-12 platform only?

Because I know for a fact that my 97 Mark VIII LSC has both Traction Control and Traction Lock.

But I think it as a much more involved system than the Gen I Mark VIII's or the MN-12's.

My Mark has a "spinning wheel" emblem on the dash that lights up when the TC is operating.

Anyone know for a fact that the Gen II is different than the Gen I's?
From what people tell me the 97 LSC Mark VIII comes with all speed traction control and a 3.27 open rear end. If you have a traction lock you have a special order.

Please confirm by looking on the door sticker. Look for the letters "AX". Under the AX is the axle ratio code. Match it up to chart below.

8...2.73:1 Conventional or open differential
M...2.73:1 Traction-Lok
Y...3.08:1 Conventional
Z...3.08:1 Traction-Lok
5...3.27:1 Conventional
E...3.27:1 Traction-Lok
W5...3.27:1 Conventional
XE...3.27:1 Traction-Lok

What is your code?

J.Miller
East Coast Rolling Thunder!!!!
Official Eastern and Central PA chapter of the SCCoA!
J.Miller is offline  
post #17 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2004, 06:51 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cullman, AL
Age: 56
Posts: 7,758
Send a message via AIM to 94 Daily Driven 4.6L
I’m basing my statement on the following:

On the tag on the differential:
3L27 (I checked it the first week I had the car while I was doing the “under car” inspection)

Traction Control “ON” and WOT (on dry pavement):
Left, Right, Left, Right, "bouncing" about 4 times upon final launch, then nothing as the engine fall flat on it's face and has no power.

Traction Control “OFF” and WOT (on dry pavement):
Two black marks with slight fish tailing and wheel hop and lots of engine power.

Per your request:
Under "Axle" on the door:
34 (Yep, “34” I just double-checked and that is what is under “axle” on the tag. )

This car does have some options, so maybe the TracLoc was added as an option. I thought all the LSC’s had the TracLoc, but I don’t know that much about the Gen II’s. And, I didn’t buy it new, so who knows.

But I like it.

97 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC (Chip'd, 3.73 T/L... so far... )
97 Ford Aspire (Slow, but getting 36 mpg (f'n Ethenol!! )
84 F250 Dually w/6.9L Diesel (7.3L IDI pending)
73 Mercury Cougar Convertible w/351C 4V (Partially Restored)
69 F100 LWB w/460 Engine
76 Glastron Carlson 23' Jet Boat w/460 CJ Engine
94 Daily Driven 4.6L is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome