Stock shift points vs. chipped... - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-08-2004, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Stock shift points vs. chipped...

Can someone tell me what the stock shift points (I think like 4900 for the 1-2 and like 5100 for the 2-3, at least thats how my buddies 94 shifts) are and what they are when you get a apten chip? I beleive my shift points with the chip are 5600rpms, but wanna make sure. And my rev limiters are at 6000, is that right? Seems kinda dangerous so thats why I am asking, but my tach may just be off a little. And what rpm is the "balooning" supposed to occur?

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-2004, 06:33 PM
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I assume you mean the WOT shift points. Here are the stock numbers for a 97 EEC:

Trans WOT shift 1-2: 4350 RPM
Trans WOT shift 2-3: 4850 RPM
Trans WOT shift 3-4: 4800 RPM

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-2004, 10:00 PM
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4350 1-2???? mine shifts at like 4800 on the 1-2 like teh 2-3 and 3-4.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97Tibirdman
4350 1-2???? mine shifts at like 4800 on the 1-2 like teh 2-3 and 3-4.
It takes time for the clutches to fill. The EEC has to command the gear shift long enough ahead to allow the clutches to fill and actually start bringing the rpms down and engaging the next gear. In a stock car's case that shifts around 4900, it take that 500-600 rpms to fill the clutches.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
And what rpm is the "balooning" supposed to occur?

Thanks!
Stock converter I believe 5400.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 09:59 AM
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I guess I never thought of that. Thanks for the info, I learn something new everyday here!

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmguy


Stock converter I believe 5400.
Are there any issues with a 98 mark8 TC ballooning?
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 03:24 PM
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Yes, but I think it's up around 6500 or so if I recall right... but your stock rods wont go that high so it's not a worry

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver95Bird
Yes, but I think it's up around 6500 or so if I recall right... but your stock rods wont go that high so it's not a worry
Agreed, especially considering the stock engine won't any real power that high anyways.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 02:29 AM
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as i have heard, they put the top speed limiter for some reasons, and one was the TC...now if u upgrade to a mark viii, is the speed raised?(assuming with appropriate DS)if so, how much? what about the marauder TC?

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 02:52 AM
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The TC's safety concern isn't in regards to vehicle speed, just engine rpm. The TC begins to balloon around 5400rpms, and if allowed to do so, could stretch to the point that the bearings can fall out of their races and trash the converter, taking the transmission with it. The Mark VIII and Marauder units don't balloon until the 6500rpm range.

The driveshaft is one concern that the speed limiter is set so low, but its not nearly the deathtrap that people think it is.

The biggest reason that the speed limiter is set so low is because the factory tires are only speed rated to 112mph.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AverageJoe
The TC's safety concern isn't in regards to vehicle speed, just engine rpm. The TC begins to balloon around 5400rpms, and if allowed to do so, could stretch to the point that the bearings can fall out of their races and trash the converter, taking the transmission with it. The Mark VIII and Marauder units don't balloon until the 6500rpm range.

Here I go again up on top of my soap box!

That 5400 RPMS is assuming a relatively new torque converter. As the torque converter ages, stresses build up in the material that could weaken the metal and cause ballooning a little earlier. This is what I call aging…

The limited service life is part of every mechanical design. This is the reason you see 20 year old air planes going into retirement or restoration. If they did not they would crash. Trust me when I say the design service life of automobiles is not as long as airplanes. They want you to buy new car!

In addition, as your transmission gets older the pump just does not pump like it used to. It takes longer to ramp up the torque converter and this can be a problem since you get near the ballooning point.

I like to keep my transmission as long as I can so that I can throw my money at other things. Even though I have a well made Pro Torque torque converter and a Art-Carr transmission I make sure that my transmission shifts below 4800 RPM's under WOT conditions.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 02:35 PM
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So what are the shift points with an apten, J-chip, ect.....

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97Tibirdman
So what are the shift points with an apten, J-chip, ect.....
with an apten chip my car shifts at about 5500 rpms for the 1-2 and about 5600-5700 for the 2-3.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 06:37 PM
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If I get an apten chip will it baloon my TC? I thought they worked fine with a stock driveline

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdawg97lx


with an apten chip my car shifts at about 5500 rpms for the 1-2 and about 5600-5700 for the 2-3.

Frank
Yea that's about were mine shifts or at least that is how high the rpms get while shifting. I know there is a slight delay so I would guess the tranny is told to shift at about 5400.

This is why I asked this question. I was pretty sure the balooning was 5400 and I know my shifts are above that. But know one with chips seemed top have any issues. Why is that? Has anyone even blew up there stock TC before?

One time I was stuck in/on some ice behind my house. I had a few friends pushing me while I had it in reverse. I was giving it some gas and I was turned around looking behind me (being thart I am trying to go in reverse) and when I turn around I see that I am at 6000 RPMS. So thats why I actually made this thread. With a chip is there a rev limiter?


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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by J.Miller

I like to keep my transmission as long as I can so that I can throw my money at other things. Even though I have a well made Pro Torque torque converter and a Art-Carr transmission I make sure that my transmission shifts below 4800 RPM's under WOT conditions.
Or is that because you have a 5.4 and there is no need to go that high??


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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
With a chip is there a rev limiter?

nope, but if you ask I'm sure they'd let you keep it. I'd sure want to keep it, or at least set it a bit higher than stock.

Yesterday I was leaving a snowy parking lot in a not-so-great mood and stomped on it, look down and the tach says 5500. Now that's a lot for my 3.8 that shifts at 4300. Kinda scared me for a sec.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 07:26 PM
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My tach was broken when i got it, so i don't have to worry about it.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 08:51 PM
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completely removing the rev limiter is stupid. there is no reason to, your engine stops making power at a certain point, and it leaves it open to a grenade mishap.

None of the SCT family completely removes the limiter. If I was a tuner I would refuse to do it




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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2004, 09:28 PM
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My 96 is totally stock but for some reason it shifts at about 5400.
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post #22 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
Or is that because you have a 5.4 and there is no need to go that high??
Nice try! My motor is makes power above 5,000 RPM's. I think the motor can make 6,000 if I wanted to.

Here is a Dyno:


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post #23 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 12:50 PM
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Wow talk about low end power. Also looks like it dogs out at 5k to me. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. All the dyno's I've seen are ascending, you're descends. Maybe it's because I look at v6 dyno sheets
-Thomas

EDIT: Yes, yes I did read it wrong. That's a pretty nice flat power curve.

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post #24 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 02:51 PM
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That is because I have both HP and torque there. Torque is on the top and goes down and HP is on the bottom going up. It peaks around 5400 RPM but I do not let it go that high even though I have a forged 8 bolt crank, high flow oil pump, Stall TQ, AL driveshaft, bullet proof tranny, a Tranny cooler and a few tricks.

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post #25 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by J.Miller
That is because I have both HP and torque there. Torque is on the top and goes down and HP is on the bottom going up. It peaks around 5400 RPM but I do not let it go that high even though I have a forged 8 bolt crank, high flow oil pump, Stall TQ, AL driveshaft, bullet proof tranny, a Tranny cooler and a few tricks.
Yea, I was just messin' with ya... that is some insane low-end!!



So the only reason you don't shift that high with all the tricks and goodies is for the safety? I thought thats what all the tricks and goodies are for, to make it run at its fullest potential?! Or is there some other reason why? All those goodies you named are made to take the abuse!


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post #26 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
So the only reason you don't shift that high with all the tricks and goodies is for the safety? I thought thats what all the tricks and goodies are for, to make it run at its fullest potential?! Or is there some other reason why? All those goodies you named are made to take the abuse!
No one abuses a car more than I do on a daily basis. I have been doing it for years and have over 100,000 miles on the transmission to show for it.

You do not run a car to its all out maximum every day and expect it to last. A factor of safety is a must.

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