Flushing, Changing T-Stat... - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
Flushing, Changing T-Stat...

I'm going to put in a 180 T-Stat.

Before I do that though, I want to flush the radiator.
Will I be okay if I stick the garden hose in the hose that connects to the t-stat housing and watch the water come out of the t-stat opening on the manifold, or should I do it the other way around and stick the hose in the t-stat connector opening and watch the water come out of the hose? Will this flush the entire system?

I want to do a 50/50 mix of water to antifreeze in the system, but what are the actual gallons that I'll need?

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 03:47 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
Lightbulb easy backflush

Backflushing your cooling system is an esssential component to keeping your car running cool, while keeping you war in the winter months (i.e. preventing heater core failure).


An effective and easy way to do this is to plumb into the heater hoses in order to backflush the heater core. You suggest tapping into the radiator hoses and that won't get all the used AF out, nor will it backflush your entire sysytem. Try this: go to K-Mart, Wal-Mart whatever discount store is nearest to you, and purchase a garden hose coupling: at K-Mart it's $2.99 (probably on the clearance rack now for 50 cents). It is a short piece of 5/8-inch garden hose with couplings at either end, one end surrounded by a spring (it's designed for use at the water spout).

To begin, drain your radiator by opening the stopcock.

Cut one end of your "garden hose coupling".

Disconnect the hot-water outlet to the heater core and point it down to a collection bucket [a 5-gallon pail is good thing]. I attach a piece of tygon tubing to the disconnected hose to give me extra length, then route it to an empty pail.

Attach your "modified" garden-hose coupling to the heater core outlet, and your regular hose to the coupling.

Turn on your water supply and you'll notice the "bad" AF empty into the pail. Soon it'll become clear. Stop. Get the hose out of the pail and flush the system for a couple of minutes (there will only be a trace of AF, so don't get overly-concerned about "environmental damage"). Stop. You're finished with the flush. Now to fill.

I use 60% AF because I want a higher concentration of buffers to combat electrolysis from dissolving my heater core welds. 50% is the recommended amount and provides aqeduate cooling properties. DO NOT GO ABOVE 70% [I think 65% is tailing off], NOR BELOW 40%. outside the recommended ranges, you'll gain no beneift of freezing point depression nor boil-over protection.

Rememebr to close the stopcock before adding AF . In fact, I usually remove the lower rad hose just to clear more of the water out b4 re-filling.

When AF flows out of the heater core outlet, you now you've added enough.


I make 3 gallons of 60% AF. After running the car to normal operating T, and coooling overnight, I refill the reservoir to the appropriate level.

Have fun!
birdofprey is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-19-2002, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
Where is...?

Where is the "hot-water outlet to the heater core" located. Do you have an image. I've got the Haynes book, and there is no mention of this.

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-20-2002, 01:10 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 610
Re: easy backflush

Quote:
Originally posted by birdofprey
Backflushing your cooling system is an esssential component to keeping your car running cool, while keeping you war in the winter months (i.e. preventing heater core failure).

(much text deleted)

I use 60% AF because I want a higher concentration of buffers to combat electrolysis from dissolving my heater core welds. 50% is the recommended amount and provides aqeduate cooling properties. DO NOT GO ABOVE 70% [I think 65% is tailing off], NOR BELOW 40%. outside the recommended ranges, you'll gain no beneift of freezing point depression nor boil-over protection.

Have fun!
If you use distilled water instead of tap water and change it yearly like I do in my SC due to the headgasket issue you will (or should) never see it. Also if you are using water wetter they recommend 30% mixture. Personally I run a 40% mixture with water wetter as it doesn't get cold in Georgia that bad, and 50% mixture is way overkill.

Also unless you have crap in the radiator leading to believe you have clogging in your heater core backflushing is way overkill. Unless you can pressurize an air/water charge to blast water throught the core and or engine garden hose pressure will do little good IMHO.

For what it is worth tap water is bad. Why would you want to introduce all sorts of minerals and crap into your cooling system? I won't go back to the old way and I flush my system out with the distilled water every year. Works good and is cheap insurance.

Jim Long
Blown94SC is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-20-2002, 09:59 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
Re: Re: easy backflush

Quote:
Originally posted by Blown94SC


[snipped]
For what it is worth tap water is bad. Why would you want to introduce all sorts of minerals and crap into your cooling system? I won't go back to the old way and I flush my system out with the distilled water every year. Works good and is cheap insurance.

Jim Long
Jim, the isssue of water boils down to know your water source. While there is no denying that pure water isn't a bad thing, using distilled or deioinized water can be an unnecessary added expense. If your water is "hard", meaning that it contains alot of calcium, magnesium, iron or other divalent minerals, then you should consider an alternative water source. I have "good" water which does not need any treatment by "softening" (echanging calcium for sodium) or neutralization (getting acid out by passing over lime).

The reason why I say using distilled water is unnecessary, is that the antifreeze itself has salts. Because coolant is in constant contact with the metal parts of the engine and radiator, some type of corrosion inhibitors must be used in the antifreeze to protect all metal surfaces from electrolysis. Our engine radiator and components parts, like most modern engines, are built with a variety of metals: cast iron, steel, aluminum, brass, copper and lead solder. These different metals are the basis of forming a galvanic cell which means one or more of the metals can become sarifical, and disslove away.

Most conventional antifreezes green or yellow in color, contain inorganic salts of borate, phosphate and silicate to prevent rust and corrosion. The additives create an alkaline coolant mixture that typically tests at about pH10. The silicates form a protective coating on metal surfaces and are especially good at protecting aluminum.

To ensure that the coolant remains alkaline for a reasonable length of time, there must be enough corrosion inhibitor to neutralize the acids formed from glycol degradation that occur over time. This neutralizing capability is called "reserve alkalinity," and it varies depending on the type and quantity of additives used in a particular brand of antifreeze. That is why routine changes of the coolant are essential.


But I digress, the issue was what water to use. In flushing out a radiator, the water isn't nearly as big an issue as the water used to mix up your AF. Regardless, you MUST AVOID using hard water, since the divalent minerals cause the phosphates to precipitate out and form scale. Using distilled water will provide a slighter longer life of your AF, but I recommend changing it often, before the buffers are consumed.

A variety of surveys has shown that coolant is the one of the most neglected vehicle maintenance item. An easy way to check for the condition of your coolant is to check the pH level. This is easily done with a pH test strip, which can be purchased at most aquarium stores.

The average pH level range of typical coolant out of the bottle is around 10. When diluted with water, it drops to about 9- 9.5. A pH level at 7 or lower (acidic) can lead to both excessive corrosion of all metal parts exposed to coolant and hose failure.

So the bottom line is that if coolant is contaminated or the additives are depleted, flush the system.
birdofprey is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-20-2002, 11:47 AM
Refrigerator Raider Hater
Moderator
 
GreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vermont
Age: 36
Posts: 11,719
I run 80% water, 20% af, and water wetter. but then again, I change my anti-freeze every six months, becuase for winter I use 80% af, and 20% water. Never had any cooling problems in the summer, and never needed to replace a heater core. In the winter, I've never had it running




Matt "Looks Like Egon" Davis
96 Alpine Green V8
98 Audi A8 4.2Q in Racing Green Totalled
02 Audi A8L 4.2Q in Black

I buy my OEM Ford parts at 10% over dealer cost from Steve in White Bear Lake, MN.
You drive "like a man possessed"... by a woman!
GreenBird is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-20-2002, 05:59 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 610
Re: Re: Re: easy backflush

Quote:
Originally posted by birdofprey


Jim, the isssue of water boils down to know your water source. While there is no denying that pure water isn't a bad thing, using distilled or deioinized water can be an unnecessary added expense. If your water is "hard", meaning that it contains alot of calcium, magnesium, iron or other divalent minerals, then you should consider an alternative water source. I have "good" water which does not need any treatment by "softening" (echanging calcium for sodium) or neutralization (getting acid out by passing over lime).

[snip]

But I digress, the issue was what water to use. In flushing out a radiator, the water isn't nearly as big an issue as the water used to mix up your AF. Regardless, you MUST AVOID using hard water, since the divalent minerals cause the phosphates to precipitate out and form scale. Using distilled water will provide a slighter longer life of your AF, but I recommend changing it often, before the buffers are consumed.

[snip]

The average pH level range of typical coolant out of the bottle is around 10. When diluted with water, it drops to about 9- 9.5. A pH level at 7 or lower (acidic) can lead to both excessive corrosion of all metal parts exposed to coolant and hose failure.

So the bottom line is that if coolant is contaminated or the additives are depleted, flush the system.
Unless you know for a fact what kind of water comes out the hose then distilled water should be used. And I don't think .59 cents a gallon is too awfully expensive. And I guess you missed the part where I suggested changing it once a year.

Too each their own to how they maintain their automobile. I offered a reply to the issue of electrolyisis and if it is changed once a year you will never see it period. While you can go and get test strips and all that other stuff you can eliminate that added expense by using distilled water and changing it once a year. I haven't had a heater core failure yet nor do I expect one.

I also believe the heater core failures are due to crappy manufacturing and high pressures at high rpm levels, thus the use of an inline restrictor. While the electrolysis may be a factor for the long term is an another symptom to a problem.

my .002

Jim Long
Blown94SC is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-20-2002, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
Thanks for the extensive info!

I WANT to flush the system, my problem is that I don't know which hose that I should disconnect to do it. birdoprey suggested that I use the "hot-water outlet to the heater core"... I don't know where this is. The only reference I've got is the Haynes book, and it does not show where this piece.

Where is it?

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-21-2002, 06:24 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 610
Re: Thanks for the extensive info!

Quote:
Originally posted by CyLum
I WANT to flush the system, my problem is that I don't know which hose that I should disconnect to do it. birdoprey suggested that I use the "hot-water outlet to the heater core"... I don't know where this is. The only reference I've got is the Haynes book, and it does not show where this piece.

Where is it?

Unless it is crusty just fill it with water, run, drain radiatoe 2 or 3 times. Does the same thing.

Take your pick as there are two hoses, I don't know the answer.

Jim Long
Blown94SC is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-21-2002, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
I guess I could just turn the heater on. That should run the water through the system no matter which hose I run water into.

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-21-2002, 01:51 PM
Moderator
Moderator
 
JustinH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 37
Posts: 8,239
Send a message via AIM to JustinH
Jim is right.

If you drain the radiator then fill it about three times, you will get most of the old coolant out. You could buy one of those things that splices into the heaterhose, and you spray hose water into it, but I would do that to a previously abused system that is very dirty, its unnecessary if you change the fluid often enough. Plus, I wouldn't trust that coupling on my heater hose, so I would buy a new hose , and save the old one for coolant flushes.

I use 50/50 prestone/distilled watter, and a bottle of redline water wetter.

Justin
JustinH is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-21-2002, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
I know I should know this already, but could somebody get a digital picture of someone pointing at the heater hose you guys keep talking about. Man, I'd sure appreciate it.

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-21-2002, 06:43 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 610


The two hoses off to the right of the throttle body are heater hoses

Jim Long
Blown94SC is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-22-2002, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
6th Gear Poster
 
CyLum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Largo, Florida Tampa Bay Area
Age: 66
Posts: 505
Send a message via AIM to CyLum
Thanks Jim

But do you mean the 2 hoses to the LEFT of the throttle body (as seen from your picture)?
One of the 2 that are candy cane hooked into the air, connected to the manifold, then they go down to the firewall... I kept thinking it was a hose toward the front of the engine, not back there. Why...I have know idea.

CyLum - Pearl Thunderbird LX. . . . . MN12 T-Bird T-SHIRTS - click here
  • Bought her brand new in '95
  • BFG Comp TA 245/50 and 17" ATP Wheels - - - - 4.19.00
  • Removed silencer-extended tube to bumper - - - - 8.18.02
  • BBK 70mm TB - - - - '02 GT 80mm MAF - - - - FRPP 9mm Wires - - - - JBA Headers - - - - ART Exhaust no cats - - - - 10.4.02
  • Bilstiens - - - - Eibachs - - - - Dennis Chip - - - - 10.4.02 Retuned 1.29.03
  • Richard M. Tube - - - - 10.14.02
  • 180 Degree t-stat - - - - Evans water pump - - - - 11.6.02
CyLum is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-22-2002, 04:01 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 610
Re: Thanks Jim

Quote:
Originally posted by CyLum
But do you mean the 2 hoses to the LEFT of the throttle body (as seen from your picture)?
One of the 2 that are candy cane hooked into the air, connected to the manifold, then they go down to the firewall... I kept thinking it was a hose toward the front of the engine, not back there. Why...I have know idea.
The 2 that look like candy canes are the heater hoses.

Small block chevys are on the from of the engine.......LOL Sorry, didn't mean to say a


bad word in the forum....



Jim Long
Blown94SC is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome