Car shakes when braking - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
NRL
Real Ultimate Goatse Hunter
 
NRL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Age: 35
Posts: 850
Send a message via AIM to NRL
Car shakes when braking

Rotors must be warped up front. But before I go out to get new ones (crappy autozone supposed heavy duty ones lol) is there anything else that could be contributing to this that I should take care of while im down there?
NRL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 01:16 PM
Veteran Poster
 
CamellionCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Miami
Age: 38
Posts: 801
Send a message via AIM to CamellionCat
hey dude i know this is going to sound dumb

but how can you tell if you have warped rotors my rotors look fine but now when i brake my steering wheel shakes from left to right a lot. Is this a sign of warped rotors?????

Marvin M.

95- Cougar- SOLD (in loving memory)
Mods-17x9 cobra r's,H&R springs,KYB shocks & struts,removed air silencer,9"K&N cone,gutted cats,dual glasspack setup,cooling fan switch, B&M 24,000 tranny cooler.

Back in the game!!!
97 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC-opal opalescent with black interior, upgraded with a 98 tranny, 18x9 black saleen speedstars, LMS dual tip mufflers, 5% tints all around.
CamellionCat is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
NRL
Real Ultimate Goatse Hunter
 
NRL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Age: 35
Posts: 850
Send a message via AIM to NRL
Re: hey dude i know this is going to sound dumb

Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin M.
but how can you tell if you have warped rotors my rotors look fine but now when i brake my steering wheel shakes from left to right a lot. Is this a sign of warped rotors?????

Marvin M.
Unless you look at them from head on (which is hard to do from the side while they are on the car) you might not be able to tell. Even a little bit of warpage is enough to shake a car since you are squezing a non flat surfce very tightly, and both sides are gonna be warped differently.
NRL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 01:21 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 80
I think its very difficult if not impossible to actually be able to tell if they are warped simply by looking at them. Even the smallest imbalance in them can make your car shake. I had this exact problem a while ago, i replaced the front rotors with Bendix Racing slotted and cross-drilled ones. I love them, no brake fade whatsoever.
T-5.0 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:05 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 343
Re: Car shakes when braking

Quote:
Originally posted by NRL
Rotors must be warped up front. But before I go out to get new ones (crappy autozone supposed heavy duty ones lol) is there anything else that could be contributing to this that I should take care of while im down there?
To help prevent warping rotors ALWAYS torque your lugs to spec and NEVER NEVER put you lug nut ON with an air wrench. I have seen many garages do this and it is wrong always HAND torque your lug nuts and it makes a huge differance.
MadDog2020 is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:08 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 538
Wait Guys

Before you go on and install new rotors.....I have had a problem like this in my 88 T-Bird and in my current 94 T-Bird

In both cars, the rotors were NOT the problem...i know everybody on this board will be very quick to say that it's warped rotors.....as i was told the same.....However, this was not the case...

Marvin my 88 had a steering whell shake like yours, but the problem was the Tie rods...as soon as i replaced them, the problem was gone

As far as my 94, I had a pulsating brake pedal when i was braking.....Even after installing new breaks......However, when i took the car to my regular mechanic 6 months later, I had the brakes replaced with BENDIX brake pads....and guess what...No more pulsating brake pedal....the problem was never the rotors.

So before buying new rotors (unless your using it as an excuse to upgrade your brakes)...check out your brakes
Hope this helps

BeirutsFinest
BeirutsFinest is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 03:09 PM
Veteran Poster
 
17Mark71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New TX resident
Age: 56
Posts: 799
Similar problem

Yeah, I'm having similar symptoms, but it's not consistent. I get occasional steering wheel shake from 55 to 65 mph and the same type of wheel shake on braking. I've rotated wheels a couple of times to see if it's the tires, but it doesn't seem to be that. The tires are only a year old. I only have 43,000 miles on the car. When I bought it, it only had 19,000 miles. I haven't had any brake work done yet. Any ideas or opinions would be welcomed.

'97 Sport Option'd T-Bird
DSS Shortblock, PI Heads, 262AH Cams, Kooks, SVO SC with stock pulley,
42 lb injectors, 70mm TB, '02 GT MAF, Vogtland Springs, Mk VIII DS,
Marauder TC, 17" SVT T-Bird Rims, Michelin PS2 235/50/17, True Duals,
4.10 gears, J-modded tranny
300RWHP 335RWTQ
Member of www.midwestthundercats.com

17Mark71 is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 09:26 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bainbridge GA
Posts: 150
Check your master cylinder reservoir. Is there evidence of fluid escape? If so there is a good chance it is a warped rotor. My bird has 133K on it and I started having trouble after I turned the original rotors @ 75K. Never been the same. I recently went to NAPA and bought new front rotors (funny thing was that the inside of the hat area had the Ford logo of which part was removed for balancing)and the Expensive Ceramix pads. I am no better now than before. I don't think it's the rotors since I am at full thickness (no fluid loss like before). I checked the guide pins and they are reasonable in showing wear. I did find that proper torque for the caliper retaining bolts is specified at about 26 Ft-Lbs which isn't much. I also tried a LITTLE grease on the pad points. That worked for a while but I still notice it is squirrley at times. I have changed tires and I am about ready to look at the tie-rods and ball joints.

L. Thomas
97 Tbird Sport
99 J-Mod Tranny
PBR calipers
270K miles and still flying, just not daily!
Generalee is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 12:39 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Newton,KS
Age: 41
Posts: 391
Send a message via AIM to Runner383 Send a message via MSN to Runner383 Send a message via Yahoo to Runner383
Try all the little stuff first.

I have to throw my 2 cents in. I had the exact same problem you described Except my rotors had been resurfaced and were smooth as glass. I tried an alignment shop, nope didnt need an alignment, but they found something I didnt see. My right front tire had a bubble in it that was conveniently hidden from my view when i looked at my tires. I put on brand new tires and had them balanced, no more shake. I didnt need to get the front end aligned either, she goes very staright.

Just another suggestion. Check as many things first to make sure nothing gets overlooked before you spend anything.

"Piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Runner383 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 12:45 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Rolling-Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albany, NY
Age: 57
Posts: 3,247
Here are some things to check, when experiencing a tire vibration that can be felt in the brake pedal.

1. Properly torqued lug nuts.

2. On the 93-95 fan wheels, check that the valve stem lines up with the yellow painted lug nut stud. (front wheels only)

3. Tire balance.

4. Worn strut rod bushings in the lower control arm.

Steve - TCCoA member
2003 Crown Vic LX Sport
1995 T-Bird LX 4.6 retired at 247,888 miles
Thanks for the ride !
Rolling-Thunder is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 02:58 PM
PostWhore
 
ITT-BIRD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Houma,La: South of The NO
Age: 37
Posts: 1,160
Post

Hey i have similar problems. Ive balanced my tires and machined my rotors so i know they are correct. (i work for a dealership). Well it didnt help. I have no vibrations @107mph but shimmy on braking. I decided to use my resources and found this tsb:

Printable View (47 KB)
Article No.
98-21-6 STEERING - STEERING "NIBBLE"/STEERING WHEEL MOVEMENT FELT WHEN DRIVING OVER ROUGH SURFACES

Publication Date: OCTOBER 9, 1998

FORD: 1995-97 THUNDERBIRD
LINCOLN-MERCURY: 1993-98 MARK VIII
1995-97 COUGAR


This TSB article is being republished in its entirety to add Thunderbird and Cougar models.

ISSUE:
A steering "nibble" may be felt in the steering wheel when driving on rough roads such as grooved pavement on some vehicles. A nibble may be defined as "slight rotational movement" in the steering wheel. This may be caused by lateral runout in the tire/wheel assembly.

ACTION:
Install a revised yoke spring in the steering gear. The spring should increase the damping force and reduce the amount of tire/wheel inputs to the steering wheel. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
The steering gear must be lowered or removed from the vehicle to access the spring nut. Refer to Figure 1. Refer to the appropriate Service Manual for steering gear removal procedures.


Figure 1 - Article 98-21-6


Remove the locknut from the yoke spring nut.
Remove the yoke spring nut.
Remove the yoke spring and discard.
Install a new Yoke Spring (F8LZ-3F516-AA) which is purple in color.
NOTE: THE FOLLOWING STEPS ARE EXTREMELY CRITICAL AND MUST BE FOLLOWED EXACTLY. BE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURES BEFORE CONTINUING THE REPAIR.



Make two (2) marks on the top outside edge of the yoke spring nut 16mm apart (Figure 2). The marks are needed to properly adjust the yoke spring preload. These marks can be made at any location on top of the nut, but they must be 16mm apart.


Figure 2 - Article 98-21-6


Reinstall the yoke spring nut and tighten to 5.1-5.6 N-m (45-50 lb-in). This bottoms the yoke against the rack and preloads the yoke correctly.
NOTE: THE TIGHTENING TORQUE OF THE YOKE SPRING NUT IS CRITICAL.



Make a mark on the steering gear housing that aligns with mark #1 on the yoke spring nut.
Back off the yoke spring nut until mark #2 aligns with the mark on the steering gear housing. This equals 48-56 degrees (52 degrees is the target) and sets the clearance between the yoke and rack.
Hold the yoke spring nut in place and reinstall the locknut. Tighten the locknut to 60-81 N-m (44-60 lb-ft).
Reinstall the steering gear into the vehicle by following the procedure outlined in the Service Manual.
Check and add steering fluid as required.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
F8LZ-3F516-AA Yoke Spring


OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

SUPERSEDES:
98-8-3

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
982106A Install Revised Yoke Spring (Mark VIII) 1.0 Hr.
982106B Install Revised Yoke Spring (Thunderbird/Cougar 3.8L) 1.6 Hrs.
982106C Install Revised Yoke Spring (Thunderbird/Cougar 4.6L) 1.4 Hrs.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
3F516 07

OASIS CODES:
303000, 306000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could this be what some of us is feeling?

"You Should See the Front!"

1995 Lazer Red Cougar
[email protected]
Custom Tru Duals, PI 4.6, JModded Tranny w/ TC.
Programmed by SCT Xcal2
Thanks to PalmGuy I have this beautiful masterpiece.
ITT-BIRD is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
NRL
Real Ultimate Goatse Hunter
 
NRL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Age: 35
Posts: 850
Send a message via AIM to NRL
Well it aint what im feeling, im a 94 lol.
NRL is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 04:50 PM
Veteran Poster
 
17Mark71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New TX resident
Age: 56
Posts: 799
R-T,
How can you tell if it's problem number 4 (rod bushings)?

'97 Sport Option'd T-Bird
DSS Shortblock, PI Heads, 262AH Cams, Kooks, SVO SC with stock pulley,
42 lb injectors, 70mm TB, '02 GT MAF, Vogtland Springs, Mk VIII DS,
Marauder TC, 17" SVT T-Bird Rims, Michelin PS2 235/50/17, True Duals,
4.10 gears, J-modded tranny
300RWHP 335RWTQ
Member of www.midwestthundercats.com

17Mark71 is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 05:53 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Rolling-Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albany, NY
Age: 57
Posts: 3,247
You should be able to visually examine the strut rod bushings for wear at the lower control arm, near the spindle. Also, you can take off the front wheels, and exert side to side pressure on the strut rod, and see if you feel any movement.

Steve - TCCoA member
2003 Crown Vic LX Sport
1995 T-Bird LX 4.6 retired at 247,888 miles
Thanks for the ride !
Rolling-Thunder is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-29-2002, 10:09 PM
Veteran Poster
 
17Mark71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New TX resident
Age: 56
Posts: 799
Thanks RT!

'97 Sport Option'd T-Bird
DSS Shortblock, PI Heads, 262AH Cams, Kooks, SVO SC with stock pulley,
42 lb injectors, 70mm TB, '02 GT MAF, Vogtland Springs, Mk VIII DS,
Marauder TC, 17" SVT T-Bird Rims, Michelin PS2 235/50/17, True Duals,
4.10 gears, J-modded tranny
300RWHP 335RWTQ
Member of www.midwestthundercats.com

17Mark71 is offline  
post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-31-2002, 04:20 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 92
couldnt ABS cause a pulsating that could be interpreted as a shake too? Or should ABS be unnoticable?
GENERATION (L)X is offline  
post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-31-2002, 06:22 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Rolling-Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albany, NY
Age: 57
Posts: 3,247
ABS should only cause a pulsating movement when it is activated.

If you are just braking normally, you shouldn't feel it.

Steve - TCCoA member
2003 Crown Vic LX Sport
1995 T-Bird LX 4.6 retired at 247,888 miles
Thanks for the ride !
Rolling-Thunder is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome