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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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pi top end q's

this winter i am gathering parts for a full PI top end swap in the spring and would like some guidance from those that know. i have a 94 in great shape with a little over 100k on the clock. if i were to use the PI manifold with PI cams and NPI ported (mildly) heads, would this be a swap worth my time? i say NPI heads so as not to raise the compression (plus theyre affordable). i know there are a bunch of little things to make these parts fit/work (ie alternator bracke, TB, etc), but i just have not seen a lot of info on this swap on a 94. also, what are the chances my valves will need to be replaced? i know the seals are a safe bet to replace, but how about the actual valves? is there anything i can do with the rockers when rebuilding the heads like a better ratio? what am i overlooking here? thanks for any input

-John
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:13 AM
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this winter i am gathering parts for a full PI top end swap in the spring and would like some guidance from those that know. i have a 94 in great shape with a little over 100k on the clock. if i were to use the PI manifold with PI cams and NPI ported (mildly) heads, would this be a swap worth my time? i say NPI heads so as not to raise the compression (plus theyre affordable). i know there are a bunch of little things to make these parts fit/work (ie alternator bracke, TB, etc), but i just have not seen a lot of info on this swap on a 94. also, what are the chances my valves will need to be replaced? i know the seals are a safe bet to replace, but how about the actual valves? is there anything i can do with the rockers when rebuilding the heads like a better ratio? what am i overlooking here? thanks for any input

-John
Can't swap PI cams into the '94-'95 heads-there's not enough lift capability on that casting. there are no aftermarket followers(rockers) with a different ratio-stock is all you have to workwith.
If you want to do the PI cams-you're gonna need a '96-'99 F5AE casting NPI head, along with a set of fuel rails, throttle body and inlet elbow, throttle body cable, cruise control cable, etc, etc...
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:13 AM
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a headswap is a lot more labor intensive that an engine swap

flow would be a little better, rebuilt heads generally reuse the same valves, they just replace the seals and anything that is worn out of spec

as far as the "rockers" none available that i'm aware of. if you do decide to do a headswap, don't forget the FRPP head changing kit. comes w/ head gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, and new headbolts


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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:19 AM
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then its not a PI "top end" swap if you're using NPI heads ...hehe

besides, you'll need 96+ NPI heads to accomodate the lift on the PI cams...PI cams wont work in earler NPI heads because the coil gets binded

but regardless, depending how good of a port job you end up getting, with a good tune, you should see a minimum of ~215 rwhp....i say this because i made 216 rwhp SAE on PI intake/cams/tune........if you bump up the compression, you could see close to around 245 rwhp.....most people who do FULL PI top end swaps see around this figure because 10.5:1 will sure make more power than 9:1.........again, all this depends how well the heads are ported, if at all

there is very little chance your valves will need to be replaced, but with a port job you usually need new valve seats and for them to be properly machined......there is extra airflow/power to be had with a good 3-angle valve job, and also with some aftermarket undercut valves

not much you can do about the rockers.....aftermarket ones (with the same ratio) are available from Jesel, but they're $100 a pop, and wouldnt net you anything at your projected power level/RPM operating range
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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cant do the whole thing

i'd love to swap the engine, but i live in an apt and have limited money. james d, are the heads you have the 96-99 or the older style? more questions to follow... gotta go to work. damn you guys are fast for a tuesday morning, though. thanks

-John
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:30 AM
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they are 96+

i don't know anyone who lists their 94-95 heads out of embarassment


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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 10:58 AM
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you just caught me the one day a year i wake up 2 hrs early for class....lol
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 12:04 PM
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I have a pair of 98 GT head with stock cams. I can sell them to you if you want them..


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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 09:06 PM
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you can't put pi cams on 94-95 heads, you can swap pi cams on 96-97 heads, the PI cylinder headswap with PI cams and the PI intake would be your best bet though, theres not really a whole lot of room for improvement on the 94-95 heads because of the bad valve angle, spring bind, restriction,etc... let me know if you have any other questions I should be able to help you through it.

Regardless of what you pull the PI heads from you need new valve stem seals, they are worth the price while they are off the car, also because you are doing this on a 94 you need a lot of the top end components from 96-97 bird, things like fuel rails, TB, Plenum, EGR Valve, PI coolant tube, PI coolant nipple, PI intake manifold gaskets, etc...

Like I said feel free to PM me with any questions.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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alright

current plan: pi manifold, pi cams, 96 cast npi ported heads w/ some valve work as well.
the questions: on my 94 manifold, there is a line running from the pcv valve to 2 ports on the back. my new manifold does not have 2 said ports. is this something i can take care of with 97 bird parts?
i know i will need the actual egr valve but will i need the tube running from there to the exhaust manifold?
do i need the 97 tb or will mine bolt to the new plenum? throttle/cruise cables are ok, right?
with the pi cams, will stock npi parts (ie valve springs) be adequate?
at 100 k the timing chains are a must, no?
in the tech articles, it mentions cleaning the carbon from the tops of the pistons.... is this really a good idea?
pi or npi gaskets? prolly npi with rtv right?

you wanted questions, you got questions. and i have searched, but for a 94 engine, this does not appear to be the most common swap. thanks

-John

Last edited by 94MN1246; 11-28-2007 at 08:01 AM. Reason: specify '96 cast' heads
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 94MN1246 View Post
current plan: pi manifold, pi cams, 96 cast npi ported heads w/ some valve work as well.
the questions: on my 94 manifold, there is a line running from the pcv valve to 2 ports on the back. my new manifold does not have 2 said ports. is this something i can take care of with 97 bird parts?
i know i will need the actual egr valve but will i need the tube running from there to the exhaust manifold?
do i need the 97 tb or will mine bolt to the new plenum? throttle/cruise cables are ok, right?
with the pi cams, will stock npi parts (ie valve springs) be adequate?
at 100 k the timing chains are a must, no?
in the tech articles, it mentions cleaning the carbon from the tops of the pistons.... is this really a good idea?
pi or npi gaskets? prolly npi with rtv right?

you wanted questions, you got questions. and i have searched, but for a 94 engine, this does not appear to be the most common swap. thanks

-John
The valvesprings from '96-present on the 2V's are the same spring-the installed height is different on a NPI and a PI head.
Not really any reason to change the chains-they're good for 250-300K miles easy.
PI gaskets with RTV on the edge of the coolant port.
You'll need all '96-'97 parts-TB,intake elbow,EGR valve,EGR tube,IAC,etc,etc,etc...
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 10:27 AM
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you can get the 02+ explorer EGR tube if needbe, it is a good fitting part


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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 05:24 PM
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in the tech articles, it mentions cleaning the carbon from the tops of the pistons.... is this really a good idea?
is any carbon ever any good inside an engine?
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 05:47 PM
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Im kind of in the same boat here with the swap only that I plan to buy PI heads complete. I am getting the gist of what I need to swap. Its the little small stuff that I dont see a list for. I know Im not a real certified mechanic and some may say what biz do I have trying this but Im learning slowly but surely, its exciting to me. This board is great help with the 100 million questions I ask. Im buying up the big stuff right now(high $ pieces), but anyone have a list for the little things. The small things you have to grab from the 96-97 at a junkyard. Maybe a pic with arrows pointing the hoses out or something. My plan was to take everything from the top end of a 96-97 at a yard and leave the big stuff Ive bought. In others words its the "etc etc etc" JL mentions. Oh and new head bolts is good idea? Any other small things that you should not reuse or replace? New Gaskets is already on my menu. I figured 94MN1246 may have similar questions.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
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Im kind of in the same boat here with the swap only that I plan to buy PI heads complete. I am getting the gist of what I need to swap. Its the little small stuff that I dont see a list for. I know Im not a real certified mechanic and some may say what biz do I have trying this but Im learning slowly but surely, its exciting to me. This board is great help with the 100 million questions I ask. Im buying up the big stuff right now(high $ pieces), but anyone have a list for the little things. The small things you have to grab from the 96-97 at a junkyard. Maybe a pic with arrows pointing the hoses out or something. My plan was to take everything from the top end of a 96-97 at a yard and leave the big stuff Ive bought. In others words its the "etc etc etc" JL mentions. Oh and new head bolts is good idea? Any other small things that you should not reuse or replace? New Gaskets is already on my menu. I figured 94MN1246 may have similar questions.
I dont know the exact location of the threads, but if you search "PI headswap" or "PI swap" you'll find it. You'll have to read a bit, but its all out there. Im pretty sure you need the fuel rails from a 96/97 car, the intake, throttle cable. Basically the 94/95 intake setup is totally laid out different than the later years.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 06:26 PM
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id say just get PI heads, by the time you spend money on NPI heads your not so far away from PI heads , and labor to swap heads are the same...so id check ebay or around here if i were you...but its JMO

Or you get get a converter first before the PI swap , thats what im doing. A converter will help more than a PI swap...
then when you do PI your be making use of the power

but GL either way , me and Chad will be doing complete PI swap and torque converter on my car first of next year...

if you have any questions ask!

ed

PS...i herd a funny story, how the smooth and filled came to be LOL uh does it have to do with a police car and your car meeting????

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 06:49 PM
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Oh and new head bolts is good idea?
no....thats not just a good idea

IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST!!! .....either new head bolts, or go with ARP head studs
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:09 PM
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What is the general preference for head bolts. Ford vs ARP. Im not supercharging so will a Ford brand be ok? ARP is a solid brand, are they close in price to ford? Sorry for such newbe questions but Id like to by the optimal things. Thanks for being so quick guitar maestro.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:29 PM
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Ford bolts are included in the head swap kit from FRPP, otherwise they should be on the order of $40 or so. ARP studs are around $200. ARP are also reusable whereas Ford bolts are not.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:39 PM
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Felpro's are also not reuseable, although I've used them in most of my swaps, they run about $65 for the set, fords are cheaper, although I like the permatack felpro headgaskets over the ford headgaskets, just don't move around as much, they are also more expensive, go figure

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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all pi would be nice

ed- the price of the pi heads is whats keeping them from me. ive got lines on just about everything i need (except gaskets and bolts) for under $300. thats what one pi head costs! and a TC would be very nice, but i have some very slight issues that will be taken care of with the top end swap... kinda needed maintenance turned performance mod.
maestro- i wasnt sure scraping the top of the piston sounded like the thing to do. should i try to clean the cylinder walls, too?
chris- the headswap gasket kit from ford should have every gasket i need, right? timing cover gasket in there?

can anyone tell me where i could obtain the correct size "undercut" valves for a 96 cast romeo npi head? (edit: i know the romeo doesnt matter, but it makes it sound more like i know what i am talking about if you dont know what im talking about)

Last edited by 94MN1246; 12-03-2007 at 09:17 AM. Reason: see above
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 09:58 AM
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Chris murder Ill go with your recommendation of the felpro head gaskets. And from the sound of it felpro head bolts are better than ford? Since youve done this plenty of times pretty much your recommendation for anything Ill go with.

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 12:16 PM
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The cylinder walls have nothing on them to be cleaned, and you don't want to mess up the cross-hatching and the wear pattern already made.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 12:54 PM
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well i wouldnt "scrape" per say, but gently remove is more like it

foaming oven cleaner works real good to dissolve the hard carbon deposits on piston tops...whatever is left, you can use a steady stream of carb cleaner and plastic bristle brush to get them as clean as possible (it helps to have the piston at TDC).....use a shop vac to get all that dirty carb cleaner out of the cylinder, then coat the piston/walls with WD-40 or similar lubricant

send a PM to user NickMcKinney, and he'll point you in the right direction for undercut/swirl-cut valves
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94MN1246 View Post
ed- the price of the pi heads is whats keeping them from me. ive got lines on just about everything i need (except gaskets and bolts) for under $300. thats what one pi head costs! and a TC would be very nice, but i have some very slight issues that will be taken care of with the top end swap... kinda needed maintenance turned performance mod.
maestro- i wasnt sure scraping the top of the piston sounded like the thing to do. should i try to clean the cylinder walls, too?
chris- the headswap gasket kit from ford should have every gasket i need, right? timing cover gasket in there?

can anyone tell me where i could obtain the correct size "undercut" valves for a 96 cast romeo npi head? (edit: i know the romeo doesnt matter, but it makes it sound more like i know what i am talking about if you dont know what im talking about)
the ford head changing kit comes with: headbolts, headgaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, and a new dipstick tube

some things you may need:
timing cover gaskets (if you tear yours while removing the cover)
PI intake manifold gaskets (if you don't have these already)
valve cover gaskets (if they swell upon removal or you tear them while removing them)
valve cover grommets (if any of them are cracked)
timing chains (if they are worn)
timing guides (if they are down to the metal)
tensioners (if they are clogged)
PI intake tube (if you don't have this already)
PI water pump nipple (if you don't have this already)

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