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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Electric fan

Hey Guys, Ive noticed lately that my fan doesnt turn on until the temp gauge gets to the upper range, it does it mostly in slow speed driving, on the highway it never goes beyond midway, and when the A/C is on it never goes past midway, could this be the CTS or the Relay?, by the way its a 1997 4.6, thanks
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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Sounds like the "low speed" side on the 2 speed fan is out .

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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There are a couple things worth noting before we start suggesting possible problems.

The 97 coolant temperature gauges have a lot of variance from the factory. A particular temperature on one gauge may register 1/2 and 2/3 on another gauge. It's not a reliable way to determine temperature of the engine except in a relative sense (comparing the same car to itself).

Do you have access to a scan tool or other device which can tell you the coolant temperatures as it's being read by the PCM? That will tell you if the car is actually behaving as it should be or if there is a possible problem. The computer in a stock program turns on the low speed fan once the coolant reaches 210 degrees then off again at 200. If the coolant reaches 220 degrees the high speed fan turns on, then when the coolant drops below 210 it reverts to low speed.

Also - with the a/c on, the fan is running 100% of the time the pressure in the A/C high pressure lines is above certain point while the vehicle is moving under 48 MPH. Because of this constant airflow over the condenser and radiator, your coolant temperatures are more likely to remain closer to the 195 degrees at which the thermostat opens than in city driving with A/C off, translating to a lower gauge reading while moving down the highway or with A/C on.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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There are a couple things worth noting before we start suggesting possible problems.

The 97 coolant temperature gauges have a lot of variance from the factory. A particular temperature on one gauge may register 1/2 and 2/3 on another gauge. It's not a reliable way to determine temperature of the engine except in a relative sense (comparing the same car to itself).

Do you have access to a scan tool or other device which can tell you the coolant temperatures as it's being read by the PCM? That will tell you if the car is actually behaving as it should be or if there is a possible problem. The computer in a stock program turns on the low speed fan once the coolant reaches 210 degrees then off again at 200. If the coolant reaches 220 degrees the high speed fan turns on, then when the coolant drops below 210 it reverts to low speed.

Also - with the a/c on, the fan is running 100% of the time the pressure in the A/C high pressure lines is above certain point while the vehicle is moving under 48 MPH. Because of this constant airflow over the condenser and radiator, your coolant temperatures are more likely to remain closer to the 195 degrees at which the thermostat opens, translating to a lower gauge reading.
No I dont have a scan tool, but the gauge gets to 3/4 mark and the fan always come on, how about using a infared temp checker on the radiator?
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:59 AM
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Point it at the coolant crossover on the intake since that's where the temperature sensors are. If it's within a few degrees of 210 when the fan comes on you don't have anything to worry about.

-Brandon
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Point it at the coolant crossover on the intake since that's where the temperature sensors are. If it's within a few degrees of 210 when the fan comes on you don't have anything to worry about.
Okay Ill try that, Thanks for the info
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 12:09 PM
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I'll add that if you have an Android phone or tablet with Bluetooth (all phones, probably about any tablet over $200 or so), you can pick up some Bluetooth OBDII pods for under $100 - well worth it, but be sure you can return it in case it can't read the Ford data stream (some of the cheapies are hit and miss on that.)

If you have an iDevice, they also make WiFi versions of the dongles.

I'll state that it's almost sinful to NOT have one, what with all the info the computer can give you. It's even better if said combo with the software on the iDevice or Android device can datalog (like the $5 Torque for Androids can ... )

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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I'll add that if you have an Android phone or tablet with Bluetooth (all phones, probably about any tablet over $200 or so), you can pick up some Bluetooth OBDII pods for under $100 - well worth it, but be sure you can return it in case it can't read the Ford data stream (some of the cheapies are hit and miss on that.)

If you have an iDevice, they also make WiFi versions of the dongles.

I'll state that it's almost sinful to NOT have one, what with all the info the computer can give you. It's even better if said combo with the software on the iDevice or Android device can datalog (like the $5 Torque for Androids can ... )

RwP
Sorry ralph, but Im a low tech man in a high tech world, are you saying i can get a something for my Andriod phone that acts as a scan tool and where can I get one ,Thanks
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry ralph, but Im a low tech man in a high tech world, are you saying i can get a something for my Andriod phone that acts as a scan tool and where can I get one ,Thanks
Hey Ralph, I went online and found what your talking about, I also checked Harbor freight and they have a scan tool for $80 that looks like it does what I need and is updatable
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 09:55 AM
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I have been having the same issue with my 1996 4.6 as well. The temp guage gets to just slightly over the half way mark before the fan comes on. I have replaced the t-stat and the switch on the coolant crossover nearedest the thermostat. The Ford dealership wasn't able to tell me what the switch on the opposite side of the coolant crossover pipe was. Maybe it was the individual at the counter. So that switch is also for fan control as well?

Regs,
Chris
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 09:57 AM
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The sensor with the green plug is for the gauge, the other is for the PCM. The gauge sensor has nothing to do with when the fan comes on and is only used by the gauge on the dash. The PCM reads the ECT through the sensor on the crossover with the gray plug, then commands the fan to come on as needed.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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The sensor with the green plug is for the gauge, the other is for the PCM. The gauge sensor has nothing to do with when the fan comes on and is only used by the gauge on the dash. The PCM reads the ECT through the sensor on the crossover with the gray plug, then commands the fan to come on as needed.
So would replacing the CTS fix the fans low speed setting? The low speed comes on when A/C is on, I guess I need to verify what temp is when the fan comes on, Thanks for the help
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 11:45 AM
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How do you know the fan's low speed setting needs to be fixed? The fan's operation which you described earlier sounds perfectly normal.

If you're convinced it isn't, then be sure to get a reading on the actual coolant temperatures before you start replacing parts. No sense in replacing parts that aren't failing.

-Brandon
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 02:52 PM
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So then the green plug is the one that my Ford dealer couldn't identify. Now I know. Thanks! Is it possible then that my sensor for the guage itself could be dirty or off in some way?

Additionally: are all the electric cooling fans on the 4.6 two speed? If so then how do I test that both speeds are working properly?

Regs,
Chris
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 03:35 PM
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Don't rely too heavily on the gauge on the dash. Like I said in a previous post in this thread, the factory gauges aren't very accurate. Case in point: My 94 3.8 used to read just barely left of "N" when cruising. Then it started to show cooler and cooler. I went through two thermostats and a temperature sensor, nothing changed it. Until one day I had the gauge cluster out and 'flicked' the temperature needle from one end to the other, then it went back to normal. The gauge was reading incorrectly, my temps were normal all the time.

Yes, all the electric fans used on MN12s are two speed. Unplug the gray connector and the high speed fan will come on. A/C uses low speed IIRC.

-Brandon
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 07:09 PM
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At around 210, my gauge reads just over the middle too. Perfectly normal.

I bought one of these scanners a few years ago. This tool has paid for itself many times over as many times as I've used it.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...r%2C+scan+tool

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2013, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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At around 210, my gauge reads just over the middle too. Perfectly normal.

I bought one of these scanners a few years ago. This tool has paid for itself many times over as many times as I've used it.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...r%2C+scan+tool
Yeah Im going to get one of those ASAP, Thanks for the link
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 08:53 AM
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I bought my Actron CP9035 in 1996 and I still use it today - works great! lol

I like Ralph's idea about the bluetooth scanner for my Android - that's pretty kewl and I'll have to get one!


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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
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Perfect then. I'm not going to worry about. I had it hooked up to the OBD tool 2 weeks ago and it showed no fault codes. The car isnt a leaker and hoses are good so I'm just going to chalk it up as this is it's normal state.

Thanks for all the good information. Glad to know what the green top plug is finally!!

Regs,
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah Im going to get one of those ASAP, Thanks for the link
What do ywww.Amazon.com/Actron-CP9550-OBD-11-Pocket Scan-Dianostic+toolsou think of this one, Thanks for the info
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 07:30 PM
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I'd spring for this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP9575-...4516885&sr=1-4

I know it costs a little more, but it can provide you with live engine data like fuel trims, engine coolant temp, and such. I've used this feature countless times.

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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I'd spring for this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP9575-...4516885&sr=1-4

I know it costs a little more, but it can provide you with live engine data like fuel trims, engine coolant temp, and such. I've used this feature countless times.
I didnt even see that one when I was looking thru Amazon, Thats what I want, Thank you Michael
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 08:17 PM
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Since we're on the topic, this is the one I bought - Actron CP9580L AutoScanner Amazon.com

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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-28-2013, 09:05 PM
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Since we're on the topic, this is the one I bought - Actron CP9580L AutoScanner Amazon.com
I might have to invest into one of those. It'd be cool to be able to read ABS codes. I had a customer with an ABS light that was lit and my reader couldn't tell me what was up.

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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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I didnt even see that one when I was looking thru Amazon, Thats what I want, Thank you Michael
Well I just got my scanner, and even though the gauge goes into the upper level, the fan kicks on @ 210 degs , Thanks for the help
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 08:38 PM
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Well I just got my scanner, and even though the gauge goes into the upper level, the fan kicks on @ 210 degs , Thanks for the help
There's a TSB for some of the gauge sending units reading high.

May not hurt to change the sending unit out.

RwP
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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There's a TSB for some of the gauge sending units reading high.

May not hurt to change the sending unit out.

RwP
Yeah Ralph, I plan on doing that, It was reading 175 at the halfway mark, Thanks
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 09:03 PM
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Mine reads 180 at about 40% and at 200 it's about 60%. So like I mentioned before, there's a lot of variance.

-Brandon
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-31-2013, 10:22 PM
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How long does it take for the fan to come on after the a/c is turned on, instantly?
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 05:41 AM
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In a correctly charged system, a couple seconds. The fan's engagement is triggered by a pressure switch on the high side of the system.

-Brandon
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