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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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97 Tbird no spark

I have a 97 Tbird it has been running fine,cut the engine off when i went back to start it,it ran just for a few seconds and died. Now the engine cranks over but will not start. fuel pump is running injectors are pulsing,but no spark to the plugs,changed the crank sensor,still nothing anybody have any ideas i would appreciate any input. I am a newbie on here,but I have been reading on here for a few years. thanks
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 11:43 PM
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What is the CEL doing when you have key on, engine not running, and also when you are cranking? When you have it in key on, engine not running, is the electric cooling fan always on?

The wiring to the crank sensor can also be bad.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply,I havn't thought about the wiring going to the crank sensor. The cooling fan hasn't come on during any of this and the CEL dont work. Guess I'll go put a bulb in and check some wiring,thanks.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 08:12 AM
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Does you car have anti-thief system from the factory. If you turn the key forward there will be a security light in the instrument cluster. If it is blinking at you, you may have bad key.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 10:12 AM
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About six months ago, I fixed a Ranger that nobody could figure out what was wrong. One of the wires to the crank sensor was broken.

Point being, like Bangster said, the wiring could be bad and should be tested. I simply ran a separate test wire pair with another connector down to the crank sensor when I tested the Ranger and it started right up. My fix was just to replace the wires.

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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well today I didn't get around to changing the CEL bulb,but I did check the wiring for the crank sensor up to the main harness it looked fine. i changed the multi relay box,located behind the right headlight(what ever its called). did put a scanner on it instead of a code reader and it gives a P1000 code OBD II duty cycle not complete. Done a KOEO test everthing cycled but it showed the same code.
i check the fuses yesterday and they were good but today i checked with a test light and both 5 amp RUN fuses don't have any fire on either side. just wondering if anybody has seen this before? Thanks again for any input.....oh yeah it dosen't have security..
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 09:59 PM
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K tomorrow when i go to work i will look up the wire diagram and see the power lay out.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardfordtruck View Post
I did check the wiring for the crank sensor up to the main harness it looked fine.
exactly how did you check it?
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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I pulled the cluster this morning found the CEL was mising so i robbed one from something else for the time being..the CEL light goes out while I'm cranking over the engine,so now what?? On the wiring harness i just visually check it by undoing the harness up to the top of the engine from there I don't have a clue if i knew where it went from there as far as what pin where the harness went thru the firewall or where ever it went i would ohm it out and checit that way, right now i don't even know where to go next.....thanks for the help as always....
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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MY mistake the RUN fuse has power,the other one I was looking at was a spare,hard to look laying upside down..the coil packs on either side has power on all three wires. Looking straight at the engine the far right wire on the passenger side burns really dim. I just post everthing I try hoping someone can point me in the right direction that has had this problem in the past. Anyone know how it would act if the PCM went bad? i have seen them go bad in other Fords but they all had other problems other than just would not run. Does anyone have an idea on mayhbe where the wiring harness might be bad?
thanks again
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 06:46 PM
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I would ohm out those two wires going to the crank sensor. I looked at the wire diagram at work. Its a straight run from the sensor to the ecm. If they ohm out good. There leaves three option in my mind. One bad sensor, i have gotten new one that were bad before. Two the exciter ring has a broken tooth or is not turning. They can brake the key and it will not spin correctly. Lastly, a bad computer. If you had a lab scope you could see the crank signal and verify a bad computer.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Well yesterday I ohm out the wires going to the computer,they ohm out good. when you spin the engine over its breaking signal so that leads me to believe the crank sensor and the exciter ring is working properly.. I guess the only thing left is the computer...I hate to spend that much money not knowing for sure if thats it or not....Thanks everone for the help....
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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If the CEL goes out while cranking, the PCM is recieving CKP signal - your crankshaft position sensor is good, and the PCM is reading it .. the CEL going out during cranking verifies that already .. if it stayed on during cranking, you wouldnt be getting a CKP signal. So you know it has CKP input - need to check for outputs, to the Coil packs and injectors .. see if the PCM is giving the command to spark, on the 96/97 the ICM (ignition module) is built into the PCM itself .. need to see if its triggering the coil's, or check that the Coil packs and Injectors are reciving Battery voltage.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that info, I checked the injectors with a noid light they all seem to be working...I'm running out of my know how on this thing...beiing i'm old school,this stuff is kicking my butt.....How would be the best way to check the outputs to the coils? thanks again maybe one day i'll get it with everones help...
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 08:14 PM
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i was looking at the wire diagram and if you have 12v at the red and lite green, you have power. The ecm will ground red/ lt green and drk blue/ lite to fire the coil. Check power and use a lite to see if the ecm ground the drivers. If it doesn't then the wire is torn or bad pcm/ecm.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 08:57 PM
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If the noid light is flashing on the injectors, you have power and the PCM is triggering so no problems on that side.

Spark could be checked the same way with a noid ligh - make sure you have battery voltage to the coil and that they are triggering through the PCM - voltage will be present at the trigger wires and very low to no voltage at the trigger wires when they are being activated - or light on when they are not being triggered, blinking when they are.

Its just like an ignition coil on an oldschool.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-09-2013, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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I check voltage to the coils this afternoon,all three wires carry the same voltage and when you spin the engine over nothing changes.. fire doesn't break voltage don't change on any of the wires going to the coils,so I guess the PCM isn't telling the coils to fire I guess its a trip to the salvage yard to see if i can find one close enough to make it run....If this don't fix it I'm thinking scrap yard..... thanks for everones help once again..
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-09-2013, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardfordtruck View Post
I check voltage to the coils this afternoon,all three wires carry the same voltage and when you spin the engine over nothing changes.. fire doesn't break voltage don't change on any of the wires going to the coils,so I guess the PCM isn't telling the coils to fire I guess its a trip to the salvage yard to see if i can find one close enough to make it run....If this don't fix it I'm thinking scrap yard..... thanks for everones help once again..
Exactly how were you checking it?

Using a NOID light, using an analog multimeter, using a digital, using an o'scope, how?

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-09-2013, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly how were you checking it?
I have been using a multi meter,noid light.test light and everything in between, just trying to figure this thing out..

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 05-10-2013 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Fixed quote
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-10-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardfordtruck View Post
I check voltage to the coils this afternoon,all three wires carry the same voltage and when you spin the engine over nothing changes.. fire doesn't break voltage don't change on any of the wires going to the coils,so I guess the PCM isn't telling the coils to fire I guess its a trip to the salvage yard to see if i can find one close enough to make it run....If this don't fix it I'm thinking scrap yard..... thanks for everones help once again..
the pcm disconnects ground to the trigger wires for only a couple of milliseconds, I doubt you'd be able to see a signal on a multimeter. Pull a wire boot out of the spark plug well and hold close to a grounded metal part. If you see a spark, then the coils are working.
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-10-2013, 12:36 AM
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Sounds like my no cold start problem. Let me know what it turns out to be.

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-10-2013, 04:18 PM
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the pcm disconnects ground to the trigger wires for only a couple of milliseconds, I doubt you'd be able to see a signal on a multimeter. Pull a wire boot out of the spark plug well and hold close to a grounded metal part. If you see a spark, then the coils are working.
The amount of On/Off time would still average out to less than Battery voltage on a typical multimeter.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-10-2013, 04:48 PM
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You won't see a change on a digital meter unless it just happens to sample on the "low."

An analog meter will dip just a touch, depending on quality.

If you have an older Simpson 260 meter, with a taut band meter movement, you can see it well. (If you do, and want to sell it, let me know. )

I'd use an led; yellow or green is easiest to see. A green led, a diode, and 1000 ohm resistor make a great trouble light. It can easily be built into the broken test lead you have for a meter laying around, if you're an electronics guy.

A Red/Green led that only has two leads is a great one to use; the leds are reversed, so red or green tells you what polarity.

You can likely buy one of these ready made, if you look.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2013, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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It lives again....a salvage yard computer...$50.00....started it up still skipped on 2 cylinders, check it out found bad coil pack...back to the salvage yard for a $25.00 coil pack,came home installed it ,then cleaned up the MAF runs better than ever. don't really know what started all of this,but just glad to have got it going again. Thanks everone for your input and help, I learned alot with this one.....
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-25-2013, 11:33 AM
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Good to hear you got it running, nothing like getting to drive a bird!
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