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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Preventative maintenance

I am going to be a little different and avoid a PI swap. I am burning oil and suspect the valve stem seals to be shot. I plan on finding a pair of Romeo npi heads in the junkyard and assembling them instead of changing the seals with the heads on the block. What else should I replace in the heads before installing? I plan on doing a small port and polish job on the heads. Head gaskets and timing chains should obviously be replaced. What else should be done?
-Rick
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 11:05 PM
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If you're going to go through that much time, money, and effort, you may as well use PI heads.

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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 05:07 PM
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I would fin a explorer with the 4.6 pi in it and replace the valve guides and go from there. what I mean is when it is being cleaned and the valve guides are being replaced it will give you a chance to cam it if you want to cam them as well
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 05:25 PM
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Might as well get some stock mod NPI heads from MHS.
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 05:53 PM
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Your not doing the port and polish yourself are you? If you stick with npi heads make sure you get those stage 2 npi cams from MHS. Seen some really good gains with stock npi heads and those cams.

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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ive decided to go with the pi swap, I didnt realize that ford racing sells 98-04 pi heads assembled for only 409.00 a piece. Ill be doing this over the winter, so I am debating on pulling the engine out and replacing as many seals as I can.
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 08:40 PM
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$409 a piece for stock PI heads... Are you crazy? Buy used PI heads and get a head shop to check them out.

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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklovin93 View Post
Ive decided to go with the pi swap, I didnt realize that ford racing sells 98-04 pi heads assembled for only 409.00 a piece. Ill be doing this over the winter, so I am debating on pulling the engine out and replacing as many seals as I can.
http://www.modularheadshop.com/Cylin.../StockMOD.aspx

you'd be crazy if you bought stock PI heads for that price you mentioned....
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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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http://www.modularheadshop.com/Cylin.../StockMOD.aspx

you'd be crazy if you bought stock PI heads for that price you mentioned....
Those dont include cams though
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 09:08 PM
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Stock PI cams can be had for $50 now a days
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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 09:58 PM
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Dude, PI cams are practically given away. $50 would he a HIGH estimate.

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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 10:24 PM
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What's the expense of doing a PI swap verses changing out or refurbishing NPI heads? That's something to consider. Back when I had my 96' the plan was to do a PI swap, but the expense seemed rather significant due to all the additional components needed to make this modification functional. I mean, it's not as simple as just changing out the heads, supplying new gaskets and possible replacing the timing chains and tension-ers (if needed) from what I understood.

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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 10:44 PM
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I reused all my timing components except for the crank gear(swapped to the stamped trigger wheel/1 piece sprocket). I went into my swap with the head changing kit, new valve/timing cover gaskets, water pump nipple, coolant tube and of course the heads and cams. I did a few other things along the way but just out of convenience really.

Personally I'd find a complete lower mile explorer motor if you're willing to throw away $920+. Much less work and way more beneficial.

-Matt
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 11:07 PM
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Personally I'd find a complete lower mile explorer motor if you're willing to throw away $920+. Much less work and way more beneficial.
Especially considering that the Explorer block is all aluminum from what I remember which means less weight. Less weight equals free horsepower.

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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 04:12 AM
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Of course 900 dollars for a used explorer motor means high miles like above 130K easy if you want to get something with 90K they are 1400-1500 bucks less than 90K miles they are close to 2 grand you can buy a new long block explorer motor for 2500, explorer motors can be quite pricey, I have looked into them myself, paying 1500 for a 90K motor I rather spend another grand and start with a fresh new one with 0 miles, it's hard to find a junkyard willing to play ball with you with the explorer motor I gave up after a while, if I have to have one it will be new.

Maybe junkyards in other areas are more forgiving the ones around me and the chicagoland area want good money for that type of motor, and wont really go down too much especially with no core.

97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 sohc, 60,000 original miles and lots of room for improvement.... All show and no go for now...
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post #16 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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My main concern with running pi heads is the valve to piston clearance. It seems that the size of cam you can run with the pi heads on a npi block is very limited.
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post #17 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 11:31 AM
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What exactly did you have in mind in terms of cams? I thought you said you didn't want power in the first place? Why is it limited?
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post #18 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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fudge it, ill just do the pi swap, im sure i wont regret it.
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post #19 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 04:49 PM
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Less weight equals free horsepower.

... no it doesnt. It would still make the same power on a dyno, regardless of block weight. And its only Free if the engine was obtained for Free.
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post #20 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 05:23 PM
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I bought a PI motor with almost no miles on it for $700; $400 for a head is ridiculous unless you're sh*tting money.

The most simple swap is a head swap.

It's not easy, and you really need to watch the cam/crank lineup, but it's easy.

You CAN do this with only a crank balancer puller, and a steering puller.

See Brandon's thread; he made it look easy.

The full engine is a little harder; you remove everything on the outside of your current engine, and bolt it onto another engine.

This takes the same special tools, along with a cherry picker. And you probably want to swap the plastic tensioner parts, new bolts, gaskets...


A stock set of PI heads off a crown vic or Gran Marquis can be had fairly cheaply; Or you can buy Awesome heads from MHS, if you want to have something better.

It's the same swap, either way.

The lower end will probably be fine, as long as the oil's been changed regularly.

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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklovin93 View Post
My main concern with running pi heads is the valve to piston clearance. It seems that the size of cam you can run with the pi heads on a npi block is very limited.

Talk to Jordan at MHS, tell him I sent you from the Tccoa forum, he will cut the intake valve margin to fit a future bigger cam and include a set of Windsor PI cams for free with a set of those StockMod heads. Buy a set of 16 new lash adjusters at the same time and we will assemble them with a good used set of rockers as well included. Also all StockMods now are 8 thread 2004 and newer, I can't remember the last time we got in the older 4 thread cores.
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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 06:15 PM
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Doing the headswap isn't too much of a big deal, so long as you do your homework before and know what to expect - and what to do if you run into something you don't expect.

Staying npi is a little less power with stock pistons/compression compared to PI but it doesn't require a tune unless you put in a big(ger) cam. Putting the PI heads on will bump the compression about a point and throw off the spark tables enough to need a revision in the program to be able to really take advantage of the extra compression.

If your near future plans don't include pulling the engine completely you may as well replace some of the more common failure points that are hard to get at. I did motor mounts, radiator hoses, heater hoses, and the oil filter adapter gasket.

-Brandon
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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmckinney View Post
Talk to Jordan at MHS, tell him I sent you from the Tccoa forum, he will cut the intake valve margin to fit a future bigger cam and include a set of Windsor PI cams for free with a set of those StockMod heads. Buy a set of 16 new lash adjusters at the same time and we will assemble them with a good used set of rockers as well included. Also all StockMods now are 8 thread 2004 and newer, I can't remember the last time we got in the older 4 thread cores.
Rick, tell me you can find a better overall deal than this--- Professionally built, slightly worked over with known methods, new valve guides, machined flat, modified valves for extra clearance, FREE PI cams. This is a no brainer. Or isn't it?
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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 02:48 AM
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Actually, what I mean is not in reference to brake horsepower. Weight itself has no bearing on the engine's hp and torque output; it can, however play a role in how fast a car can get from start to finish. It's basic physics in that an object at rest tends to stay at rest. In the transition from rest to motion it takes less energy to move something of similar mass, yet less weight than it does an object of a heavier weight.

It's an old adage.
"Less weight equals free horsepower."

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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 06:57 AM
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Less weight doesn't change the numbers the engine puts out. The difference in "quickness" comes as a result of a change in a power to weight ratio. The old adage when taken literally is false in all ways. All it means is that reducing weight in a particular application simulates the same effects as increasing power without reducing weight.

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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 10:50 AM
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jeez, yall get what hes saying, quit tearing it apart.
I am proof that less weight means faster times.....which everyone in the world of cars that I know, means less weight, equales free HP.
No sh1t the motor doesnt put out anymore....but it would take more HP for a heavier vehicle to do the same as lighter less HP vehicle.....do yall not get that????

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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 01:58 PM
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Hey 95, so if we could get these things to hover... then all our power is free??? i'm heading to youtube, to find the hovercraft t-bird mod....

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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 03:43 PM
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Hey 95, so if we could get these things to hover... then all our power is free??? i'm heading to youtube, to find the hovercraft t-bird mod....
wow....guess you've never heard of power to weight ratio...do some research on that.

Nick......................I'm back!!!
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rest in peace JL
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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 03:59 PM
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Y'all, get your panties out of a bunch! lol

Nothing is free, no matter how you look at it.

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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 04:01 PM
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Lamest debate ever

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