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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Built 5.0 or Explorer 4.6?

I'm having a bit of trouble deciding on what to do due to an unforeseen circumstance.

First, a little background. I've been on the site a while now but since starting a new job 14 months ago which I was given a vehicle to use for both work and pleasure my bird has just been hanging out in the garage. Sad I know, but between work and being a single father with full custody, I just didn't have time to continue my plans for the bird...until this January.

I ended up getting a smoking deal on a new built 5.0 blok from a friend who needed some cash and since have completed the carbed build. My original plan was to fabricate whatever needed to be to run this motor in my 95 lx. Then rebuild the 4.6 and put it in a Jeep project a buddy and I were going to try.

Then the unforeseen circumstance. My Ex decided to park the 03 explorer I got her for her wedding gift on its hood. My insurance totaled it and my eyebrow raised due to it being a good year for a swap, so I basically "bought" it from them...essentially I didn't get an insurance claim check on it. My ex and my son were both in the vehicle and were basically unscathed Thank the Lord. Just minor soreness and a few cuts.

Now, considering I have an undamaged, relatively low mileage complete 4.6 from a 03 explorer I'm debating scrapping the carbed 5.0 project for the relatively simple 4.6 swap.

What would you do? Cause I'm stuck

Thanks to anyone who decides to read my novel. sorry for the length, Im kicking tires with two perfectly good motors sitting on stands in my garage and a car that really needs the attention.

Travis
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 07:32 PM
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Simple. Explorer swap the bird, and put the carb'ed 5.0 in the Jeep.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 07:37 PM
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^ what he said

1995 Tbird ~ 02 explorer SVO 4.6 Sold
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 07:43 PM
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5.0 using a stand alone engine management system. Actually that would cost some $$$$$, but would be my dream build
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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the 4.6 in a 2wd Cherokee is a project more geared to help a friend keep his teenage son out of more trouble with the law. a long lasting project to keep him busy and away from the negative.
I've never really gotten into the 4.6/pi swaps, I dabbled with the idea before but I decided originally to go all in and do something with a 5.0 since it was my comfort zone.

this 03 4.6, as a complete motor fabrication would be very minor I'm assuming. I have to be honest I haven't searched for a completed motor swap. it never came up until the explorer showed up today in my driveway.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
What would you do? Cause I'm stuck
you should always stipulate, "what would you reasonably do within your abilities". Otherwise you get crazy answers.

That said, it boils down to your abilities. Who here besides yourself knows your exact level of expertise?
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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you should always stipulate, "what would you reasonably do within your abilities". Otherwise you get crazy answers.

That said, it boils down to your abilities. Who here besides yourself knows your exact level of expertise?
My abilities are decent. Money wise, by no means I would never consider to have "deep" pockets but I have enough know how and means to pay for it that either of these swaps are easily feasible with both. the 4.6 swap will be considerably less expensive from what I have researched.

My original goal of ~300 rwhp and >330rwtq is easily achievable with either set up. My biggest obstacle with the carbed motor was the transmission which I learned on this site where to get a controller. which I have. either swap is simply deciding which to drop in and complete. Neither is anything special. Will still take some time to complete the car regardless.

its a hobby project and not anything close to a daily driver.

Im just wondering what you guys who know more about these beautiful vehicles would do if presented with two opportunities.

Thanks everyone. This is helpful. Deciding on things was never my strong point...seriously. ask my ex wife she'll tell you lol
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blue95lx View Post
My original goal of ~300 rwhp and >330rwtq is easily achievable with either set up.
The stock-bore naturally-aspirated 2V 4.6 will have a VERY difficult time getting your car to 300rwhp/330rwtq unless you really step up your game and sink a lot of money into it. Just saying.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
The stock-bore naturally-aspirated 2V 4.6 will have a VERY difficult time getting your car to 300rwhp/330rwtq unless you really step up your game and sink a lot of money into it. Just saying.
Good point.

OP, you may want to look at this thread: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=143033

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 PM
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Well I have a long track-record of hating carb swaps into late-model EFI vehicles. Regardless of what power it puts out, to me that is just ruining the car, so my advice if you are looking for more power with your bird would be to go with the explorer motor. It will be a simpler swap, it will be a cleaner swap, it will be a cheaper swap, the car will have much better drivability, and while it may not matter where you are now, there is definitely something to be said for being able to pass an emissions check in any state, should you ever decide to move or sell the car or something.

As for the Jeep swap, if you are trying to keep a teenager interested and out of trouble, keep in mind that a teenager has a very short attention span, and if the swap gets too complicated with no end in sight, he will just say screw it and go back to whatever he was doing before. That to me, would be one of the perfect candidates for a carbed 5.0 swap since it won't be a wiring nightmare, the motor will be easy to work on, and he can have the truck together and running on the trails and having fun with it within a couple months, and at that point the tinkering and maintaining and upgrading it is what will keep him interested long-term.

So in summary, don't destroy a 4.6 tbird by ripping all the wiring out and dropping in a carb'ed motor, and don't waste your time trying to make a troubled teenager want to wire up an EFI motor into a Jeep as his first introduction to working on cars.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 09:27 PM
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Explorer/cams/converter/exhaust/real tune and call it a day.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 10:01 PM
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What would one lay down on a mild setup like the one you listed Nick?

Mild cam like XE268H or something similar, and a decent tune?

-Daniel

My driving is a constant struggle between wanting good gas mileage and driving like I'm Mario Andretti.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=134659&page=4

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 08:45 AM
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Depends on the rest of the combo, location, how aggressive you take the tune, and how far from reality the dyno calibration is.

An example we have had the same car make 295RWHP on one dyno and 260RWHP on another with zero changes in the tune but it can still run consistently in the 11's for some strange reason when similiar 300+ cars can barely do mid 12's.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 09:00 AM
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Hmm.. Seems odd! But there sure are a lot of variable when it come to power engines put out.

-Daniel

My driving is a constant struggle between wanting good gas mileage and driving like I'm Mario Andretti.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=134659&page=4

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 09:14 AM
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For my eighty seven cents (was two cents, but inflation ... ), I'd touch up the Explorer motor, drop it into the TBird, and put the 302 into the Jeep.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 09:40 AM
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^^^^^ i'm with ralph

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 10:43 AM
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I'm biased, I say put the 5.0 in the 95.....so what if carb is old tech or backwards.....some of us dont want to spend money on tuning an efi everytime we change something.....much easier with a carb.

Nick......................I'm back!!!
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 11:01 AM
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Hmm.. Seems odd! But there sure are a lot of variable when it come to power engines put out.
The main ones being exhaust, transmission, and rear axle.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 12:20 PM
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I'm biased, I say put the 5.0 in the 95.....so what if carb is old tech or backwards.....some of us dont want to spend money on tuning an efi everytime we change something.....much easier with a carb.
The "much easier with a carb" is debatable, as always.

But do note that you don't have to keep tuning an EFI system when you DON'T change anything ...

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 12:28 PM
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What kind of jeep and year?
And what do you mean by "built" 5.0?
Jeeps as far as I know were EFI from at least 1994, prebally earlier.
I can only say 94 due to having a 94 cherokee.

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry I haven't responded as quickly as I wanted to. Bare with me I'm on my phone since my laptop decided it needed a juice box according to my son "it was hot".

To answer as many as I can

Getting the power I'm aiming for wont be difficult as I'm a n2o addict and both motors will have a system installed. Plate system for the 5.0. Standard zex wet kit for the 4.6.

As for going low tech, this is my very first time building a non efi motor. I was in the ls1 scene for a while. So to me it's quite new and fun.

The jeep is a 90 or 91. Can't remember but same body. 2wd.

If I don't use the 5.0 in the bird ill get a fox body roller, drop it in and sell it.

As for the q about "built", forged internals, aftermarket heads, cam intake. Bolt ons etc.

I have to set up the desktop I got today and ill comment more quickly soon

Thanks everyone.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Well I have a long track-record of hating carb swaps into late-model EFI vehicles. Regardless of what power it puts out, to me that is just ruining the car, so my advice if you are looking for more power with your bird would be to go with the explorer motor. It will be a simpler swap, it will be a cleaner swap, it will be a cheaper swap, the car will have much better drivability, and while it may not matter where you are now, there is definitely something to be said for being able to pass an emissions check in any state, should you ever decide to move or sell the car or something.

As for the Jeep swap, if you are trying to keep a teenager interested and out of trouble, keep in mind that a teenager has a very short attention span, and if the swap gets too complicated with no end in sight, he will just say screw it and go back to whatever he was doing before. That to me, would be one of the perfect candidates for a carbed 5.0 swap since it won't be a wiring nightmare, the motor will be easy to work on, and he can have the truck together and running on the trails and having fun with it within a couple months, and at that point the tinkering and maintaining and upgrading it is what will keep him interested long-term.

So in summary, don't destroy a 4.6 tbird by ripping all the wiring out and dropping in a carb'ed motor, and don't waste your time trying to make a troubled teenager want to wire up an EFI motor into a Jeep as his first introduction to working on cars.
no emissions tests here so that's never been an issue. That and I rarely sell a car and the two times I've done it its been because another car enthusiast liked the set up and made an offer I couldn't refuse. Otherwise, I donate since most aren't worth enough to bother with the hassle of selling.

as for my buddies son that needs some focus, we understand that. his father is a car guy, though mostly interior and paint. He and I are instructing him on the motor rebuild, upholstery work (his dad), and window tint...which that will be the most difficult cause neither of us are very good at it. as for the wiring, I have a wiring harness out of a 95 donor parts car which I'm doing all the wiring. we're going to let him drive it at the 1/8th mile track for a few passes then he will sell it to make money for community college supplies.

as for me cutting up my own wiring for a carb motor, that's one of my biggest nays against doing this. so I agree with you on that one.

Thanks for the concern regarding the teen involved in the other build. Proof there are still some people who have a heart even if they disagree with you. Trust me when I tell you this, We Both understand he is in a very sensitive situation. We have done our due diligence and came up with a plan to keep the frustration as low as possible.

Thanks again
Travis

Last edited by blue95lx; 07-25-2013 at 08:37 PM. Reason: edited for clarity regarding two different builds.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:26 PM
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No brainer. 5.0 in the bird. You think that a stock pi motor is better then a built 5.0 come on

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:58 PM
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I say put the 5.0 in the 95.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 09:57 PM
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No brainer. 5.0 in the bird. You think that a stock pi motor is better then a built 5.0 come on
that remains to be seen.....I've seen no such evidence exists so far....so lets just sit back and wait for specifications AND pictures.....
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 10:01 PM
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Better just get it out now!


-Daniel

My driving is a constant struggle between wanting good gas mileage and driving like I'm Mario Andretti.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=134659&page=4

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 10:03 PM
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Better just get it out now!

no need for popcorn. Asking for tech information in a tech forum is perfectly acceptable.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Decided to go with the relatively straight forward 03 4.6 swap. A former coworker bought the 5.0 this afternoon.

Does anyone know if anyone still makes carpet and leather seat skins for thunderbirds still?
thanks again for your opinions, thoughts and ideas. Much appreciated
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 10:57 PM
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Decided to go with the relatively straight forward 03 4.6 swap. A former coworker bought the 5.0 this afternoon.

Does anyone know if anyone still makes carpet and leather seat skins for thunderbirds still?
thanks again for your opinions, thoughts and ideas. Much appreciated
Yes - I have some ACC carpet I'm putting in (well, have it in, but have to fix where I overcut the center hole) Ruby.

For leather seats - there's several recover shops, I think about the best buy-it-and-DIY is at Super Coupe Performance. I'd rather you found a local shop that could recover for you, though ... the stuff from SCP ain't cheap. None I've found is.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-27-2013, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Yes - I have some ACC carpet I'm putting in (well, have it in, but have to fix where I overcut the center hole) Ruby.

For leather seats - there's several recover shops, I think about the best buy-it-and-DIY is at Super Coupe Performance. I'd rather you found a local shop that could recover for you, though ... the stuff from SCP ain't cheap. None I've found is.

RwP
Thanks for the heads up about the carpet.

best person I know for upholstery is working with me on a project with his troubled teen child. I'll have to do research locally to find some other places and get prices. Only one place I went to that is in a boardering state quoted about 1500 for leather front and back.

basically im just trying to switch from predominately blue interior to black with blue accents. but I'm not an interior or electronics freak. Id rather spend my money on suspension, brakes and motor mods. 1500 for seat skins sounds somewhat high to me, then again I've never had to deal with it.

thanks for the info again.
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