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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Longer startup (cranking) time

So it's not a big deal but something I've been wondering about.

I've watched quite a few videos on YouTube, mainly looking for videos on exhaust, but that led me to listen at how quickly most T-Birds start up.

I noticed that my Bird takes longer to crank than pretty much every Bird on there. When the car is warm and has been running lately it's not bad, but when it's sat overnight it takes a few seconds of cranking.

I'll try to get a video of the startup time one of these mornings and you can give me your opinions

So I figured I'd check the fuel pressure. I hooked up the gauge to the rail, and turned the key on (not start) 3 times, pressure built up to 36 psi which is good.

I let it sit and after 5 minutes it was down to 34 psi, after 10 minutes it was down to 31 psi, and after 15 minutes it was down to 30 psi. I forgot to leave the gauge on and check the pressure while running.

Now I'm not a mechanic but that's obviously a bit of pressure drop, is that enough drop to be concerned? I know too much drop can mean I have a leaky injector or other problems.

One thing I did recently was run a can of seafoam through the tank. I was thinking that if it was a case of dirty injectors that should help. The car seemed to start better a few times after I dumped it in the tank but was back to normal by halfway through the tank.

Now, it's not a big deal because the car always starts, but I'm just curious if there's anything else I should check on. I'm thinking I'm either looking at a new fuel pump or new/rebuilt injectors if I really want to pursue the issue.

Thoughts, comments?

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 96PRLBRD View Post
So it's not a big deal but something I've been wondering about.

I've watched quite a few videos on YouTube, mainly looking for videos on exhaust, but that led me to listen at how quickly most T-Birds start up.

I noticed that my Bird takes longer to crank than pretty much every Bird on there. When the car is warm and has been running lately it's not bad, but when it's sat overnight it takes a few seconds of cranking.

I'll try to get a video of the startup time one of these mornings and you can give me your opinions

So I figured I'd check the fuel pressure. I hooked up the gauge to the rail, and turned the key on (not start) 3 times, pressure built up to 36 psi which is good.

I let it sit and after 5 minutes it was down to 34 psi, after 10 minutes it was down to 31 psi, and after 15 minutes it was down to 30 psi. I forgot to leave the gauge on and check the pressure while running.

Now I'm not a mechanic but that's obviously a bit of pressure drop, is that enough drop to be concerned? I know too much drop can mean I have a leaky injector or other problems.

One thing I did recently was run a can of seafoam through the tank. I was thinking that if it was a case of dirty injectors that should help. The car seemed to start better a few times after I dumped it in the tank but was back to normal by halfway through the tank.

Now, it's not a big deal because the car always starts, but I'm just curious if there's anything else I should check on. I'm thinking I'm either looking at a new fuel pump or new/rebuilt injectors if I really want to pursue the issue.

Thoughts, comments?
What is your battery like? My car will crank over a few times if the battery is weak.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 11:56 PM
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What is your battery like? My car will crank over a few times if the battery is weak.
Same here, mine will fire during cranking within 2-3 seconds if the battery is at 13v-14v however at 12v it cranks for about 15 seconds.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 12:09 AM
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Yup, same. My optima is a slow cranker if I let the car sit for the day and have autolamps on

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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I haven't tested my battery but I've not had a problem in the 2.5 years I've had the car. The fact it starts quick after it's been running makes me think it's more of a fuel issue.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 12:40 AM
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 96PRLBRD View Post
So I figured I'd check the fuel pressure. I hooked up the gauge to the rail, and turned the key on (not start) 3 times, pressure built up to 36 psi which is good.

I let it sit and after 5 minutes it was down to 34 psi, after 10 minutes it was down to 31 psi, and after 15 minutes it was down to 30 psi. I forgot to leave the gauge on and check the pressure while running.

Now I'm not a mechanic but that's obviously a bit of pressure drop, is that enough drop to be concerned? I know too much drop can mean I have a leaky injector or other problems.
Whats the pressure reading after a couple of hours ?? Or even a whole day ? If it drops all the way down it would explain the longer crank time. Either a leaking regulator ( test it by pinching off the return line and observing the pressure after a couple hours or so .. ) or the fuel pump check valve - doesnt mean the fuel pump itself is bad but the check valve can bleed pressure back into the tank causing the longer cranking times also. Not as likely to be the fuel injectors leaking.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 04:52 PM
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So I figured I'd check the fuel pressure. I hooked up the gauge to the rail, and turned the key on (not start) 3 times, pressure built up to 36 psi which is good.
What was the pressure at after the first turn of the key to "ON"? Does the engine start right away if you cycle the key to "ON" a few times first? How many miles are on the spark plugs?

The fuel pressure at the rail will slowly bleed down to zero over the course of a few hours. That's normal. Your pressures seem to be dropping off just a little quick, but not quick enough to be concerned about.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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20 psi or so on first turn of the key.

Cycling the key on and off a few times before starting does not help. I tried cycling it like 10 times once and it made no difference.

I changed the spark plugs last year (OEM Motorcraft platinum)

I can try testing the pressure over more time.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 06:19 PM
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Aging/dirty IACs could cause long crank times. Usually the problem happens after a short restart interval, but who knows...
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-03-2013, 10:37 PM
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20 psi or so on first turn of the key.
That jumps out as a issue/possible reason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 96PRLBRD View Post
Cycling the key on and off a few times before starting does not help. I tried cycling it like 10 times once and it made no difference.
...but that contradicts it.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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It's probably 20 psi 'cause fuel has to make it's way up the hose connected to the gauge, thereby compressing some air.

What I'm saying is after I screw on the gauge it goes to about 20psi when I first turn the key on. From the second on until I stop, it won't go past 36 psi.

The car started fine today after sitting overnight so I don't know what to think.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 07:43 AM
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When was the fuel filter last changed? It probably isn't the source of the issue, but for ~$10, it couldn't hurt to replace it.

36 psi is on the low side of normal, but that could just be inaccuracy of the test gauge.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96PRLBRD View Post
It's probably 20 psi 'cause fuel has to make it's way up the hose connected to the gauge, thereby compressing some air.

What I'm saying is after I screw on the gauge it goes to about 20psi when I first turn the key on. From the second on until I stop, it won't go past 36 psi.

The car started fine today after sitting overnight so I don't know what to think.
pressure is pressure wether there is air,oil or water in the line the pressure is still going to be the same. All air in the line would do is delay the response of the gauge, but after cycling the key 10 times everything would be compressed to its max.


anyway, I recently had a mustang in that was hard to start and low on power. Fuel pump was bad and even with pinching off the return line pressure wouldn't go above 25psi.

Replaced pump and all is well.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 12:01 PM
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I had this issue on my Tbird; it was the pump.

Sometimes, turing it on and off made no difference in pressure; it's amazing it didn't leave me somewhere.

It's a pain to replace, but it's worth it.

I think I bought my pump from RobertP for a great price, but you have to jump on those when you see them in the parts for sale forum. (Thanks, Rob!)

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Grog, what was the crank time (in seconds) approximately when it was time to replace the pump?

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 01:51 PM
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Im not saying its your problem, bt before my fuel filter was changed. My car would take crank for like 4 sec then finally start. Sometimes it wouldnt start until i turned the key again.. Now that fuel filter has been fixed for the last 4 months, It just starts right up when i turn the key. Mind you though the fuel filter on my car was original (200,xxx)
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 96PRLBRD View Post
Grog, what was the crank time (in seconds) approximately when it was time to replace the pump?
You had to crank it on/off several times to get it to start; otherwise, you could crank it forever.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 12:32 PM
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Interesting thread. I recently had my fuel pump and filter replaced, and the car now takes noticeably longer to start than it did before. Always starts, just cranks a couple seconds more than it used to. The new pump is an Aeromotive 340 lph, replacing a Walbro 255 lph which had been in the car about 10 years. The 340 was transplanted into a new Motorcraft fuel hat. The car is on a trickle charger so the battery is always fully charged.

Where is this check valve that is mentioned earlier in the string of posts?

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 05:08 PM
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Interesting thread. I recently had my fuel pump and filter replaced, and the car now takes noticeably longer to start than it did before. Always starts, just cranks a couple seconds more than it used to. The new pump is an Aeromotive 340 lph, replacing a Walbro 255 lph which had been in the car about 10 years. The 340 was transplanted into a new Motorcraft fuel hat. The car is on a trickle charger so the battery is always fully charged.

Where is this check valve that is mentioned earlier in the string of posts?
Inside the pump housing, IIRC. I think there's a reference in one of the tech articles; I'll look later.

Is that a turbine pump?

A relay pulsed on for a few seconds with a turbine pump won't build pressure like a gearotor pump will; it wants constant on.

Make a 'prime' switch, if that's the case. Or crank longer...
.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 07:42 PM
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Is that a turbine pump?

A relay pulsed on for a few seconds with a turbine pump won't build pressure like a gearotor pump will; it wants constant on.
Yep and yep.

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