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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Egr delete pros and cons

Im doing pi swap on my 95 4.6 and was wanting to hear some inputs on deleting the egr. Alot of my friends that build cars usually delete it. My car is a Sunday driver / street/strip car so gas mileage isn't a big deal. I won't be getting a tune for a little while FYI.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 08:02 PM
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Here is a question...why delete it? It isn't operative at WOT or idle, only when crusing, it improves gas milage and lowers combustion temperatures slightly as well as recirculating nox emissions which is always a plus. Plus you will always pass emissions, so just leave it on the car. Everyone is so quick to get rid of it when it provides absolutely NO performance gains what-so-ever.



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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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And on top of what Black_Cat said, it doesn't hinder performance any.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 08:26 PM
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Pros: cleaner engine bay, less in the way when pulling parts.
Cons: worse fuel economy, less knock tolerance during cruise/less spark, more emissions.

Of note: No performance is lost due to EGR being present. EGR is generally only commanded between 1100 and 2700 RPM and under 40% load.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-22-2013, 08:54 PM
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Well I just called ford and the egr tube is no longer available. I am in need of 96/97 egr tube and water pump nipple.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 12:57 PM
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Try to find it from here, ebay, or a pick n pull type place (junkyard).

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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If one were to delete egr without a tune is there a MIL eliminator?

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 10:53 AM
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I believe someone made one at one point, but it is a far more complicated circuit than one for the rear O2 sensors.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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May just run with CEL tell I get it tuned, I'd rather have the clean engine bay look.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 11:06 AM
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From all I read injecting inert exhaust gas into the intake will help to keep combustion wall temps down below 2500*F. That sounds like a good idea to me. Less oxygen to burn means less fuel used. I think its pretty obvious that for a street car the egr should be left alone, unless you like running hotter cylinder temps. With a tune you can delete it, without a tune leave it in there.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 01:20 PM
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Just find the exhaust tube, put it in.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 02:25 PM
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Pro that i saw missed, less carbon going in to the intake making things nasty....

Pulled the intake off of a 100k mile conti, had more sludge and general carbon around the egr inlet on the manifold and CAKED on the imrc butterflies.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germz1986 View Post
Pro that i saw missed, less carbon going in to the intake making things nasty....

Pulled the intake off of a 100k mile conti, had more sludge and general carbon around the egr inlet on the manifold and CAKED on the imrc butterflies.
Seafoam...problem fixed.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 02:50 PM
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Yep. Plus not all of that carbon build up is from the EGR.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Yep. Plus not all of that carbon build up is from the EGR.
Yeah, that's the burnt oil from the PCV-pass-side-over-oiling issue at high rpms; or crappy oil with few changes, depending.

Livernois has a kit, and a plate.

An oil separator in the pcv circuit, just before the intake helps a lot, otherwise.

It's amazing how much oil can be thrown into the pcv lines...

Try a long uphill curve to the left, at speed, lol. You can see an oil light from filling the pass head with oil.
(Don't do this on the street, please)

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germz1986 View Post
Pro that i saw missed, less carbon going in to the intake making things nasty....

Pulled the intake off of a 100k mile conti, had more sludge and general carbon around the egr inlet on the manifold and CAKED on the imrc butterflies.
Pull that egr and your used engine might not make it another 100k.

All the pros are pointless. Clean intake runners (can't see em dont worry about it).
Clean engine bay area (honestly?).

And like was mentioned by XR7-4.6 most of that sluge is from the pcv.

Grog, Interesting info about the pass head over oiling or not draining. Always did notice that oil pressure drop around long smokey left hand turns.

Is the Mark8 drain pan is just a bandaid then? Just gives you a couple more quarts to completely flood the cyl head with oil. Thread Jack!

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Last edited by ry2lazy4u; 08-29-2013 at 08:10 AM. Reason: so you could understand what I mean
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 08:19 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Originally Posted by ry2lazy4u View Post
Grog, Interesting info about the pass head over oiling or not draining. Always did notice that oil pressure drop around long smokey left hand turns.

Is the Mark8 drain pan is just a bandaid then? Just gives you a couple more quarts to completely flood the cyl head with oil. Thread Jack!
It's not a bandaid, it's more oil. More oil = More Gooder. Especially if there are Twins involved, lol.

I had a completely wrong idea on what caused this issue, and I was shown a commercial solution, in Guitar Maestro's Uber build thread, here:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=141021

This is a link to the kit:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...nback-Kit.html

I've added this to my build, as well as the windage plate.


.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 09:07 PM
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OP, as long as you correct the tune, the only ill-effect you'll really see from deleting the EGR system is a very slight loss of fuel mileage. I can't recommend deleting it without correcting the tune file, though I know it isn't uncommon to do so.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 11:17 AM
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I've snapped half of my EGR related lines trying to get the tube BACK on the damn valve. I've snapped an orifice, the green hard line a red hard line. Had to rig up a orifice saddle to keep it over the hole, epoxy for the hard lines, shrink tubed the hard lines to boots, new rubber lines where they fit... still running like crap. I'm replacing the backpressure transducer come payday.

I'm going to have to pull that EGR tube, and replace it... grrr, and they stopped making that part. and NO, the one for the F150 will NOT fit, nor will it bend ( damn steel ). I should have replaced the intake manifold when I started this oh, 2 months ago, and more than $700.00 to quack mechanic shops.

Is there a thread for "look how I got my car back from the 'AAA NAPA master mechanic shop'? I feel a tirade brewing. one conversation included the phrase, " You know it doesn't start... well is that what you brought it in for?"
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 03:20 PM
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95 I presume? The steel tube is still available new 1995 FORD THUNDERBIRD 4.6L V8 EGR Line | RockAuto

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 06:47 PM
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Impressive, I am thoroughly surprised.

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1985 Mustang GT. modified stock Holley 4180C, Weiand Street Warrior intake manifold, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 5 speed, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end, Ford Racing 10.5" clutch.

1998 Mustang GT premium. Trans Go shift kit, Bassani catted x-pipe, PI heads, cams, intake swap, Accufab elbow, SCT Xcal 4 tune, Eibach Pro-kit, Maximum Motorsports Caster/camber plates, fat tires. Banging audio system.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 01:39 PM
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Some where on these forums is a thread discussing, and cussing the location of the EGR on the 1995 4.6. It looks bad from any angle. I don't see how you can work around the heater core tube while doing diagnostics on the system. You can't run the engine with the hose off of the heater core. Because the 95' presents such a unique situation, there are no videos to assist.

Has anyone here faced this situation? I get a 1407 code with no noticeable change in performance. Perhaps there is a subtle difference I've yet to discover.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 01:33 AM
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Been a while. If I recall removing the TB/upper intake elbow gives you access. Pretty easy to access and remove. Remove the intake violin, TB cables, unplug TPS and remove the 4 elbow to lower intake bolts and pull out TB elbow assembly. Then things can be accessed.

Although this thread is old I dropped a PI motor in my 95 and deleted EGR and ran 8lbs of boost without PCM tuning and instead MAF modifications and larger injectors to richen fuel mixture. When I got rid of my 95 the PI engine was pulled and compression was tested with two thumbs up from the buyer when I sold the engine to a guy who needed a replacement for his F150

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 07:42 AM
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On the 94-95's, the first area to clean is under the throttle body. Those passages, along with the port running down the EGR valve get all caked up with carbon. That will fix you up unless the car has 200k+ miles.

As far as accessing the EGR valve/tube, the cowl has to come off, and it is helpful to have the intake manifold off. IIRC, I bought a special 1 1/16" stubby wrench to get the tube off the EGR just so I could take the intake manifold off.

I could not clean the tube, despite soaking it with very harsh chemicals. I did not know that there was one available, but I would not trust that a tube from Rock Auto would fit properly.

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:38 PM
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My mileage did drop, i didnt knowtice a loss at 60mph but city driving, shur as hell is hurt.
I do have a custom tune. But i since deleted the egr and didnt even get a cel code. Maybe my tune already had it shut off.

Last edited by 94badbird; 01-13-2017 at 03:48 PM.
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