Head swap issues - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Head swap issues

Hello all, I'm having some issues and I'm hoping someone can assist me iin getting them resolved.

About two weeks ago I began the installation of a pair of ported and polished npi cylinder heads and new torque converter. Long story short, I pulled the motor, did the swap and and started the motor. The motor ran good for about 5 seconds then it cut off and oil pored out the back of the cylinder heads from the unplugged oil galley holes. Well i plugged them up and started the motor again and this time it ran fine with a slight tapping noise from the front og the motor. After the motor warmed up the noise smoothed out. Now the motor began to get hotter then ever, Usually my temp is to the left of Normal. The temp got as high has 3/4 on the gauge and maintained that temperature while idling still. So I took it out for a test drive and it felt real sluggish on the low end. It was wet out side and it didnt even try and spend the tires unless I stomped it at WOT. After I got in it and then slowed down I could here the tapping noise much louder and it definitely sounds like its under the timing cover.

Is it possible that i put the heads on the wrong side and the holes that were unplagged in the back of the heads are the same holes that feed the tensioners in the front, and are plugged?

Other notes:

2500 stall converter
oil pressure was reaing a little higher then normal
Thermostat works
radiator not clogged
Ignition is good

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 03:04 PM
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
 
Mgino96tbird46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Age: 29
Posts: 3,734
Did you have to install the timing chain tensioners, or were they already on the heads?

Michael M. ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist.

1996 Thunderbird LX. Gone, but not forgotten Oct 1995-March 24 2016 Trick Flow headded, E85 guzzling beast.

1985 Mustang GT. modified stock Holley 4180C, Weiand Street Warrior intake manifold, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 5 speed, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end, Ford Racing 10.5" clutch.

1998 Mustang GT premium. Trans Go shift kit, Bassani catted x-pipe, PI heads, cams, intake swap, Accufab elbow, SCT Xcal 4 tune, Eibach Pro-kit, Maximum Motorsports Caster/camber plates, fat tires. Banging audio system.
Mgino96tbird46 is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Thanks for your reply.

And yes, I did have to istall the tensioners. Just not sure if the holes that feed oil to them are plugged or not.

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 03:52 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,577
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
I'd pull the timing cover and tensioners right now and check.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Yea, thats the plan as soon as I get home from work. I just wanted to know if there are any other possibilities or if any one else has experienced any thing of that nature.

Thanks,

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2013, 06:03 PM
Moderator & Teksid Whore
Super Moderator
 
guitar maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Laredo, Texas
Age: 39
Posts: 11,961
Send a message via MSN to guitar maestro Send a message via Yahoo to guitar maestro
The tensioner feed holes are likely plugged. No other speculation should take place until you check this.
guitar maestro is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 05:35 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,008
Garage
Check to see if any of the followers are off; that makes a tapping noise as well.

If any of those are loose, you need to pull the heads, imho.

Stuff happens, man.

It will probably cost you some cash, but you won't ever forget to check again.

Usually on new bare heads, there are no plugs at all. I believe there's a kit with all of them, IIRC.

You're the second person I've seen here with this issue; there were NO plugs in his heads.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 09:25 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Do you have the heads you took off the engine?
If so, check them for what plugs belong and where.

That's what I do whenever I swap heads unto an engine that they did not come off of.

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Thanks you all for all your help.

I finally had some time to pull the timing cover. The oil feed holes for the tensioners were indeed plugged, there was no tension on the passenger side chain at all( not even a little. I didn't have time to put it back together tonight but I will post another update on my progress when the opportunity presents itself.

I do have one more problem My passenger side cam is almost impossible to rotate, where as the drivers side turns much easier. I followed the torque sequence and specifications. Idk what could be the cause other than a defective cam tower???

Anyone ever experience this before? Any help is greatly appreciated.

I know its not PTV

Thanks,

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 11:22 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhamler View Post
Thanks you all for all your help.

I finally had some time to pull the timing cover. The oil feed holes for the tensioners were indeed plugged, there was no tension on the passenger side chain at all( not even a little. I didn't have time to put it back together tonight but I will post another update on my progress when the opportunity presents itself.

I do have one more problem My passenger side cam is almost impossible to rotate, where as the drivers side turns much easier. I followed the torque sequence and specifications. Idk what could be the cause other than a defective cam tower???

Anyone ever experience this before? Any help is greatly appreciated.

I know its not PTV

Thanks,
The "ladder" that bolts over the cam HAS to be the one that came from the head in the same spot, otherwise the bores could be slightly off, causing your binding issues.

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 07:45 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 10,008
Garage
Passenger side has the lowest oil pressure; you had open oil bores...

You need to look at the bearing surfaces on that side, as well as the other side, for verification, if nothing else.

I think Nick at modularheadshop.com has a way to fix wasted cam bearings, but you may not like the price, if you can find someone to do it at all.

If the cams won't turn, it's definitely time to take the heads off...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 11:09 PM
Moderator & Teksid Whore
Super Moderator
 
guitar maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Laredo, Texas
Age: 39
Posts: 11,961
Send a message via MSN to guitar maestro Send a message via Yahoo to guitar maestro
if the cam doesn't turn freely, you toasted the head.
guitar maestro is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Thanks again to everyone for their input.

I put the car back together and started it up and it ran fine. After taking it out for a test drive i begin to get tapping noise again and it sounds like the driver side cylinder head and timing chain. After idling for a minute the tapping went away, then came back, all the while the car was still running hot.

Everything, in my opinion continues to point back to timing and reason being is because I have done everything except change all the timing components. And the only reason is because they didn't look to be in bad shape and It wasn't in the budget.

I would like to know what do you all think.

Thanks,

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 11:28 PM
Moderator & Teksid Whore
Super Moderator
 
guitar maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Laredo, Texas
Age: 39
Posts: 11,961
Send a message via MSN to guitar maestro Send a message via Yahoo to guitar maestro
1. it shouldn't be running hot.
2. there shouldn't be any noise what so ever

start over
guitar maestro is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 11:08 AM
PostWhore
 
BIG PETE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Marietta, GA
Age: 37
Posts: 1,244
I agree with the fears of ruining the bearing surfaces on the passenger side head. It is the farthest / highest thing from the oil pump, making it the most difficult to lubricate. If the plugs were out, it will be the most affected and likely got no lubrication. I would check those bearing surfaces.

As for it running hot, that could be something as simple as an air bubble in the cooling system. With the engine running, pull the heater hose momentarily on the back of the intake manifold and let it burp all the air out. Put the hose back on when you get a steady stream of coolant. See if that fixes the temp issues, AFTER checking the bearing surfaces on the passenger side cam.

-Pete

-97 XR-7
-5.0 Big Bore ...
Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
9.0 @ 78 (1/8 Mile only in Abilene )
2.06 60' on Street Tires (BFG G-Force Super Sport 245/50/16)
3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
That Run, Corrected for Standard Day
1/8 mile: 8.75 @ 82
BIG PETE is offline  
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 07:03 PM
The Parts Guy
 
racecougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Imperial, Missouri (near St. L
Age: 36
Posts: 7,265
OP, I know you don't want to hear this, but this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
if the cam doesn't turn freely, you toasted the head.
...is correct. The cam should not be difficult to turn.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I think Nick at modularheadshop.com has a way to fix wasted cam bearings, but you may not like the price, if you can find someone to do it at all.
Yep. The cam journals in the head can be bored for bearing shells. I don't know what Nick charges, but it was $60 per bore (including the price of the bearing) at my local machine shop, IIRC. I had that work done to just one of the journals in my passenger side head when I put my engine together in '07.

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
racecougar is offline  
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-04-2013, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Just wanted to thank everyone for there assistance. Got the car back together and ist running great. Turns out the driver side tensioner was bad. I replaced all the timing parts this time around and everything is working great. As for the overheating issue, there was just a lot of air in the system.

Thanks again,

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 01:15 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhamler View Post
Just wanted to thank everyone for there assistance. Got the car back together and ist running great. Turns out the driver side tensioner was bad. I replaced all the timing parts this time around and everything is working great. As for the overheating issue, there was just a lot of air in the system.

Thanks again,
Glad to hear you got it all worked out!

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 01:36 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
1. it shouldn't be running hot.
2. there shouldn't be any noise what so ever

start over
Agree...
NotLighteningThunder is offline  
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2013, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 28
Posts: 60
No bueno

Unfortunately I am having issues again. I am hearing what i believe to be pinging under acceleration and i get a popping/crackling sound from exhaust in the upper rpm range at WOT. From the research that i have been doing it seems as if the car is now running lean because of the upgraded heads. Does anyone know what is most likely the cause of this. I have already cleaned MAF and I plan on changing the fuel filter tomorrow. I have not been able to locate any vacuum leaks and there is no CEL code. I also run 93.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

1995 Tbird 4.6 sohc
bhamler is offline  
post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2013, 12:55 AM
Moderator & Teksid Whore
Super Moderator
 
guitar maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Laredo, Texas
Age: 39
Posts: 11,961
Send a message via MSN to guitar maestro Send a message via Yahoo to guitar maestro
any and all incoming air is METERED by the [properly working] mass air flow sensor, that is what it is for. Either your MAF is faulty or there is another issue.

first do a compression test on all cylinders and report back with the actual numbers.
guitar maestro is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome