4.6 PI swap success, with Dyno #'s - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Last summer medicalmike and I decided to do the PI swap on his 95 xr-7. Been meaning to post pictures.

To be more accurate, he decided it was worth it to drop a but-load of money on trick flow twisted wedge heads and a stage 2.5 cam I think?
Since it's a 95 motor it is OBDII, and switching to PI style heads ups the compression.
Along with the twisted wedge heads, he got the kooks headers, trickflow valve covers, the PI manifold, BBK throttlebody/plenum, thunderbird CAI, GT MAF, upgraded the injectors and fuel pump and put on an aftermarket rail.
I don't know how to adjust the size of the pictures so here's the link.
http://imgur.com/SbbIRMS,96AuST4,WQa...lcvh,yoAP3nW#0

We cleaned up under the hood since, rerouted the fuel lines and relocated the regulator. But you get the gist. 316 RWHP

Can anyone do better NA?
I have some video of the first start (with no exhaust) and the dyno run. Not sure the best way to link video.

Edit: other mods shown in the pictures include a cobra brake upgrade (front and rear), and mustang rims.
We also put in 3.73's with tracklok.







Underhood:




The Cobra brakes with the mustang rims


A couple of shots of the car


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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 02:48 PM
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Yea 316 is about right

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 04:43 PM
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thats awesome!

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 05:23 PM
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That's a very Nice Car!!

Great Job, guys.

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 05:55 PM
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Useless lying numbers. Can't stand dynojets.

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
Useless lying numbers. Can't stand dynojets.
now, now! lol I know there will always be discrepancies, but the shape of the curve tells a lot regardless of the numbers.

Should have been SAE at least but oh well.

I think R9238423421 and a couple others have you beat though. I think they are in the 320+ rwhp range. Driller I think is the other one with the 5.3 stroked DOHC putting out a lot too.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 08:12 PM
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C'mon GM, I need some longtubes to help represent the ported PI crowd!

Seriously, nice numbers. Just goes to show those sissy power adder guys us N/A guys are serious.

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
C'mon GM, I need some longtubes to help represent the ported PI crowd!

Seriously, nice numbers. Just goes to show those sissy power adder guys us N/A guys are serious.

That is one thing that I have never understood from people.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 09:52 PM
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Yea I'm going to get rid of my SC kit, N/A is where it's at.

But yea nice numbers! I like the chrome around the doors and the hood. Maybe some lowering springs if I'm going to nitpick. But overall...

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 11:23 PM
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I was thinking they were a tad high for those mods too. Nonetheless good job! Needs a bullitt intake and long tubes!

Brandon, your gonna have to step it up man!

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 02:27 AM
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So that's in like the 270 ball park for mustang dyno numbers I'd imagine since they are non sae dynojet numbers. Assuming we are factoring a 1.000 correction multiple. Sorry to be that jerk to nitpick your numbers but that's my job as a certified dyno operator. Either way it's a nice build, I love seeing a built cougar, they seem to get no love by the racing community.

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-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
That is one thing that I have never understood from people.
It's just some friendly banter or teasing if you will, I don't have anything against power adders or the people who use them (at the very least of all you).

I blame kdanner for starting that one, lol.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 08:32 AM
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I have the lowering springs, just waiting for some warmer weather to put them on.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 06:44 PM
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Awesome cougar. I am jealous I would love to see more cougars they don't get any love
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:04 PM
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...so, just to clarify, what does this mean at the crank, so far as power production is concerned?

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 01:09 PM
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Nice looking Cougar, and nice numbers as well! Are those the 18" wheels off the '11-'12 GTs?

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 08:15 PM
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I spy a clutch fluid reservoir. This is a manual, right?

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 08:28 PM
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Yea your numbers don't apply anymore, this with auto would be under 300 rwhp

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95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'™s ported manifolds
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 08:51 PM
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Either way, these are respectable numbers. Could probably use more tuning, I'd imagine. Which Trick Flows did you use? Also, which 2.5 cams?

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-05-2014, 02:11 PM
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These are the 2010 gt rims, I got them from American muscle. Yes it has a t45 swapped in. We used the 38cc trick flow heads with the 2.5 trick flow cams from modular head shop.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 09:33 AM
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i am glad to see the hp numbers that you have now after the head and intake swap
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMooseofDoom View Post
...so, just to clarify, what does this mean at the crank, so far as power production is concerned?
google "engine dynos" and look at the images

then google "chassis dynos" and look at the images.

the differences will be balatantly obvious then.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 07:59 PM
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Take his rwhp number, divide it by .85 to get the hp figure at the crank.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-21-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgino96tbird46 View Post
Take his rwhp number, divide it by .85 to get the hp figure at the crank.


....soooo, around 371hp? That's what I was trying to determine.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-21-2014, 10:37 PM
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Well the car I finished 6 months ago made 318 to wheels with a automatic funktastic luckys car it's a beast for sure

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95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'™s ported manifolds
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-22-2014, 03:01 PM
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Now, now! lol I know there will always be discrepancies, but the shape of the curve tells a lot regardless of the numbers.

Should have been SAE at least but oh well.

I think R9238423421 and a couple others have you beat though. I think they are in the 320+ rwhp range. Driller I think is the other one with the 5.3 stroked DOHC putting out a lot too.
+1 on the SAE numbers.

Regardless, congrats on a great build.

I had that 78mm BBK one piece TB/plenum on my car briefly before switching to the SVO. It works really well.

Quote:
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Yea, your numbers don't apply anymore, this with auto would be under 300 rwhp
Yea, take that into consideration OxmanWI. I can't believe you're giving up on the Tork-Tec build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMooseofDoom View Post
...so, just to clarify, what does this mean at the crank, so far as power production is concerned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMooseofDoom View Post
....soooo, around 371hp? That's what I was trying to determine.
I was told 16% power loss through a 4R70W ... not sure what it is through a manual.

So, .16*316.55 = 50.648 + 316.55 = 367.198 STD HP at the crank - Adjusted for an auto.

Having said that, these numbers are really too fluid to nail down exactly. As Chris and GM said, SAE numbers are more accurate.

Here are my Dynojet rwhp numbers through a 4R70W:

STD: 412.54 rwhp / 437.07 rwtq
SAE: 401.73 rwhp / 425.62 rwtq

Feel free to calculate my crank HP with my "sissy power adder".

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
Google "engine dynos" and look at the images

then Google "chassis dynos" and look at the images.

the differences will be balatantly obvious then.
Yup.

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 12:43 AM
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That is one nice ride.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 02:30 PM
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For those that think all mustang dynos provide lower numbers, take a look at the graphs below. These are from the same car and no changes were made between the dyno which were done in the same week. One is an n/a dynojet and the other is on a Mustang Dyno.




This one has the Mustang dyno overlayed on the Dynojet sheet:
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 03:05 PM
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A mustang dyno is only as honest as it's operator and calibration settings. As an operator I can tell you I could easily make a mustang dyno produce numbers higher, lower, or the same as a dynojet. Judging by the print out I'd guess that the mustang dyno in question is skewed higher in order to appease the customers who they service who are likely used to seeing "big numbers". Lots of factors in a mustang dyno's setup. Calibration settings, weather station for corrected numbers (if they could afford one, most don't have them), [The printout shows they do NOT have a weather station hooked up], inertia on or off, vehicle weight entered, resistance entered, etc... I've been through this argument enough.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 03:10 PM
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A dyno is a tool, that's it. If you want a true hp number take it to the track or put the engine on an engine dyno.
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