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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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P307 and fouled plug

My CEL started flashing while I was out Thursday night. Engine was stumbling. I was only a few miles from home and limped back.
After a few mins, the CEL changed to constant on and the stumbling was lessened.

I put my scanner on it Friday and got a P307 DTC (cylinder 7 misfire). There were no other current codes or pending codes.

I pulled the #7 plug and found it covered in a film of oil on the electrode area (no oil above the threads). After cleaning it up, I yanked the other plugs. The #8 plug was in the same shape as the #7. All other plugs were dry and looked reasonably clean. The plugs are Bosch platinum, btw.

After thoroughly cleaning all the plugs (wire brush followed by CRC electrical cleaner on the electrodes) and reinstalling, the idle was smooth with no stumbling (in all tranny modes), and engine power seems ok.

I haven't performed a compression check yet -- I need a new test kit, for one thing.

Based on the limited info I have so far (oil on 2 plugs), what do you suppose might be the likely cause:

bad rings
head gasket failing
valve clearance issues
or...
???
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 07:08 PM
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Was it definately oil or just wet? Gas on a plug that has carbon on it can look like oil.

First thing I would do is ditch those Bosch Platinum plugs. They are junk. I had them in my Tbird years ago and they misfired within 1K miles. Replaced them with Autolite coppers and it ran good. I had the same problem with my Windstar and Bosch Platinum plugs. They lasted all of 800 miles before they made the van misfire horribly. Replaced them and all is well about 8K miles later.

John
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2001 Sable Wagon 3.0 Duratec
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 07:48 PM
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I'd bet the intake is leaking into #7 and #8, causing a misfire, which is the flashing 'check engine' light thing.

See if there is remnants of coolant on the wires, and around the rear holes in the intake just beside them.

You're in Texas, so it could have dried up.

If it boils the plug wires, they will leak spark.

I've had this on two cars; it's cooling system corrosion related around the rear of the gasket.

That said, this is a great time to start saving for a pi intake swap.
The gasket is a different size, which helps after the corrosion...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sousa632 View Post
Was it definately oil or just wet?
I wiped the 2 plugs on a blue shop paper towel; the liquid was brownish, felt like oil, smelled like oil.
If I were a bettin' man -- I do buy lottery tickets, so I guess I sorta am -- I'd say it wasn't coffee.




P. S. or gas
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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I'd bet the intake is leaking into #7 and #8, causing a misfire, which is the flashing 'check engine' light thing.

That said, this is a great time to start saving for a pi intake swap.
The gasket is a different size, which helps after the corrosion...
Last time I got the flashing CEL and a misfire DTC some years ago, the problem was a bad ignition coil pack. I was hoping I'd be that lucky again.. then I saw the plugs.

I dunno bout the PI swap. I still like the car, but it's got 88k on it, needs tranny work, new brakes all around (including rotors and probably drums), the a/c is toast, needs the rear suspension rebuild (I did the front not long ago), interior needs some work now, etc. etc.

I've been thinking about getting a new (or low mileage) car (or truck) anyway. If this turns out to be serious engine trouble, I'm not sure how much time and money I'm prepared to sink into it at this point, as it seems to be swarming (aka money pit; been there, done that, don't wanna go back).
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 08:02 PM
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only 88k and its already falling apart? yikes, sounds like lack of regular maintenance and abuse

the PI intake swap is simple and easy on a 96, and if you need a manifold anyway, theirs no sense in buying a NPI when the FRPP PI manifold is around the same price from amazon and it only requires a bit of RTV to install.

otherwise if its burning oil a bit of trans fluid in the oil every oil change will help with the valve seals and clean out the rings and stuff.

definitely get rid of the bosch like sousa said. these cars run a 'Waste Spark" ignition system, which essentially fires one side of the engine in reverse polarity, or from ground to electrode. with skinny fine-wire spark plugs this system will burn off those fine-wires in around 10k causing a whole bank of the engine to misfire. autolite AP or APP104's are great for these motors.

otherwise what sort of trans work dose it need? is it the shudder? could use a MercV oil and filter change.

the rear suspension can be done pretty easily with a set of energy suspension bushings. http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=141410

AC is toast? like it leaked out? serious damage to something like the condenser? the systems are simple to repair as long as you go about it the right way, change the accumulator dryer and orifice tube after you repair the leak and have it vacuumed down and recharged professionally. now if the compressor is shrapneled out, yeah, then the whole system needs to be flushed then rebuilt in the same fashion.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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only 88k and its already falling apart? yikes, sounds like lack of regular maintenance and abuse
I don't race the car or treat it harshly. It does see mainly stop-n-go city driving, though, which is its own brand of torture.

Roads around here (Houston area) have potholes galore, many of them are practically invisible and you don't know you're about to hit one, then bam, cringe, curse a little and try to remember those spots for future avoidance. Some roads are just horrible down the length of them.
But geez, it's a car, and I have to get from A to B.
I've been busy rebuilding the front suspension, and was about to move on to the rear when this latest event happened -- never could find the subframe bushings, and as I recall from reading that thread long ago, no source of non-delrins was confirmed.

Also, the fuel pump grinds like it's about to fail any day now. The morons/scammers at a shop where I took it years ago for a CEL never fixed the CEL prob -- which was merely a dirty MAF -- but they set about replacing various things, including the perfectly good original fuel pump which didn't make a sound. Now I have this POS back there that I have to drop the tank to get at, among other "work" of theirs that I had to ultimately correct.
I bought a new turbine pump a while back which was to go on the car.

I replaced the odometer gears in 2012. No, I didn't make it a habit of clearing the trip meter while in motion, so they weren't abused.

I've repaired the power windows (#[email protected]$*! urethane plugs!!!! how I loathe thee) and they're shot again. The passenger side won't budge. Nobody uses that window, it's just a craptastic design. Oh, and the driver's side motor gear is slipping inside of its collar this time, so swapping plugs won't fix it, I'd have to replace the assembly or drill and tap in a roll pin to hold them together. Nobody ever stood on or hung onto the windows, so I'm not sure how they got themselves abused (gremlins?).

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the PI intake swap is simple and easy on a 96, and if you need a manifold
The POS all-plastic manifold was replaced with the Ford metal crossover version in 2005, around the time I evacuated from Hurricane Rita's path. Imagine my predicament had that thing cracked and bled out during the 30-hour-straight evacuation (only 135 miles to the relative's house, that's how jammed the roads were!).
A Ford stealership did the swap. I hate to think I have new probs with an $800 manifold, but could be.

Quote:
skinny fine-wire spark plugs this system will burn off those fine-wires
These are older Bosch platinums and I think their cores are more substantial than the fine wire ones I've seen of late. They haven't given me trouble since I installed them some years ago (this car sees around 5k/year of use). I'll take you folks' word on the newer fine wire ones, as I have no experience with those. But the Bosch plugs *I* have aren't the problem, whatever is causing 2 of them to be fouled with oil is.

Quote:
otherwise what sort of trans work dose it need? is it the shudder? could use a MercV oil and filter change.
The first complete Mercon V swap was done years ago. The shudder returned. It also occasionally behaves like the TC solenoid (at least) is acting up (jumping/lunging). It did that pretty badly at one point, but then straightened itself up; the shudder remained. Lately, the shift points are delayed as well.
I had bought Motorcraft brand Mercon V fluid for another changeout before this latest symptom happened.
I know.. everybody says yank the valve body, replace the accumulators, must.. do.. J-mod, blah blah. I suppose I actually should replace the solenoid(s) at least, and if I do that, the accumulators as well. But J-mod? I dunno, it's a DD and the granny-shift doesn't bother me. But.. BUT.. it also prolongs the tranny's life! Great, but I was never looking to get 18 more years out of this vehicle, which is how long the original, non-J-modded one has lasted.
I just hate the thought of doing all that work and then find out that the thing needed (or will soon need) a complete rebuild.
This is more money that could go toward a new vehicle.

Quote:
AC is toast? like it leaked out?
Yeah, it was huge loss of refrigerant. My leak wand indicated the source is the high side port. Fortunately, I didn't find leaks elsewhere, not that it completely rules out leaks elsewhere. I didn't pressure test the evap or condenser cores, for example. If only the ports, the fix is simple enough.
I had planned on buying a new vac pump (my old one isn't up to the task), scales and a r134a cylinder for the job. Even if it got more involved, it wouldn't be my first rebuild, but I don't have those tools to call my own atm.
However, from a purely economical standpoint, if the next new vehicle I end up with will be r1234yf, why spend money on r134a stuff now?
As for regular maintenance, not much one can do for a closed system, except things like making sure the condenser/radiator fins aren't blocked.

As for engine maintenance, she gets her oil (always been Pennzoil & she's never seen a synthetic), with a nice Fram TG2 every time. Some people would rake me over the coals for using Fram, but the TG is a decent filter.

But, yeah, she's kind of swarming from what I would call normal DD use.
If I knew for certain the engine wasn't in trouble, I'd be a lot more interested in fixing her other probs.

Indeed, I like the body profile better than most of the new styles. I always wanted add a ground effects kit (though I can't say I care much for the available/usual kits), lowering, wider tires, rear disc conversion, custom wheels, custom interior, and get a premium paint job. When done right, these cars can look awesome.
Alas, her issues (and mine) keep me too busy to think about such frivolities.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:17 AM
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all the other problems aside, you either have to

A. Replicate the problem under actual driving conditions

or

B. replicate the problem under a controlled situation

"B" would be a smarter choice so you don't get stranded with a barely-running engine. Which is it gonna be? If "A" just drive it like you normally would. If "B" be prepared to test things like cylinder compression, cylinder leakdown behavior, etc, etc, which normally requires you to have tools at your disposal. So what's it gonna be?
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 09:13 AM
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Just cause the manifold was replaced doesn't mean it won't leak again. Brenda's '96 had the updated manifold, but leaked from the brass heater hose connection into the plastic manifold.

Al

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 09:20 PM
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yeah, didn't mean for that too be offensive, i can understand the DD being a bit hard on a vehicle. mines at around 160k DD now and ive tossed a trans in, but that's about it really. everything else ive modified or repaired for fun and upgrade. well save for balljoints here and their, the usual wear stuff.

and sometimes its hard to not feel sad for these cars driven as AtoB grocery getters. you got to remember, the majority of people here on the TCCOA forums are in love with their birds, mine is as far from 'just a piece of metal' as she can be. why else would i have spent the money i have on her with rust eating up the rearend not like i couldn't be driving a whole lot nicer, more comfortable, rust free car right now for a couple grand or anything.

potholes are murder around here as well, sometimes i dont think the road crews are even bothering to fill them though i see them out standing around daily... i got a brand new set of Michelins on mine and every time i go in one my heart skips a beat and i hope i don't find a broken belt tomorrow...

yeah, fords have had those plugs in their window motors for years, Ive dealt with my fair share on all sorts of cars and trucks. gotten pretty efficient at tearing down the motors completely, cleaning the brushes and armature grooves, slapping them all back together with fresh grease and plugs in a couple of min. not to mention a little dry graphite here, little white lithium their. when i'm done with windows they could take your head off if your not careful done my own multiple times over the years on my current car and my old 89. i can agree their not enjoyable.

the lifespan of the plastic manifolds on the modular engines is around 7 or 8 years actually, so it could be leaking again. and if your not afraid of some hand tools and getting a bit dirty, you can change it yourself for the price of the manifold and some beer.

yeah, i suppose if the trans has some shifting issues and a permanent shudder its probably on its way out.... people have worked miracles with the Jmod though, as long as the pan is not completely black or full of metal shavings sometimes a valvebody reworking will breath new life into a 4r70w. of course it most likely has the roller clutches in it, which is a whole nother story, their not worth the trouble and should be replaced.

i had a set of older bosch in my own car before i knew better. they lasted about 15k or so before i took a look at them one day after a runnability issue and noticed the electrodes had turned to slag all the way down into the porcelain shield. not saying their a bad plug, just bad for these cars and most other mid 90s fords dodges and chevys with waste spark. keep em for your volkswagon and throw in some autolites, cheep insurance.

frams will be the slow start-up-knock death of any modular ford engine. i know you've probably herd it all before, but without a antidrainback valve you can kiss your mainbearings goodbye in little time at all.

that being said the motor itself will keep running with rod knocks for years. Ive seen it in taxis and interceptors, but who wants to start their car every morning to KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK knock knock knock knock... kno.... kn.... i know i don't... and i do.... first 118k of the original owner was who knows what, but it had an ACdelco on it when i picked her up; knocked right their on the dealer lot.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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If "B" be prepared to test things like cylinder compression, cylinder leakdown behavior
I had planned on getting a new compression test kit. A dry vs. wet test will at least tell me if I have ring probs and, as 2 adjacent plugs had oil on them, perhaps it will help decide whether the head gasket is an issue (if both test low).
If rings appear good, I can move on to other suspects like valves and then start thinking about a leak down test kit.

I'll post my findings.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 09:24 AM
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Before doing any tests, take a good hard look at the intake manifold. When our '96 leaked, the antifreeze mixed with grease looked like oil on the spark plug, but it wasn't.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Just cause the manifold was replaced doesn't mean it won't leak again. Brenda's '96 had the updated manifold, but leaked from the brass heater hose connection into the plastic manifold.

Al
Was that a Ford OEM manifold or one of the Dormans?
If Ford, that would suck big time, and you'd think Ford would have designed the replacement to LAST, considering the bad press from the all-plastic POS design.

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Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
Before doing any tests, take a good hard look at the intake manifold. When our '96 leaked, the antifreeze mixed with grease looked like oil on the spark plug, but it wasn't.

Al
Ok, I'll do a closer inspection.
I didn't see any contamination of the antifreeze or anything like that, but I probably didn't look over the manifold seal as well as I could have. I headed straight for the plugs -- mostly because it had been a while since I examined them -- saw what I saw, then went right to cleaning them.
My back was starting to get tight, it was getting dark out and my cordless work light was going dim, so I quit after reinstalling all the plugs and intake tube.

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Originally Posted by nall_one View Post
and sometimes its hard to not feel sad for these cars driven as AtoB grocery getters. you got to remember, the majority of people here on the TCCOA forums are in love with their birds
Devotion is to be expected on any forum dedicated to specific vehicle(s).
But you have to keep in mind that throughout the majority of the Thunderbird's history, the car was designed to appeal to the masses, not collectors, hot rodders or enthusiasts -- notable exceptions being the early 2-seaters and the 2002 reintroduction.

While I don't view mine as a museum piece or a project car, I do like it and enjoy driving it. It's not a sports car (reminds me of the TR7 I had when I was a teen; that thing was both fun and a PIA to work on), but when I originally bought it in '96, I was looking for an affordable, somewhat sporty, rear drive, V8, DD for the city which happened to also be a decent highway cruiser with a reasonable amount of rear leg room and trunk space.
When I checked out the bird, it was the obvious choice, and that's just what Ford's goal was -- their goal changed after '97, of course.

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i got a brand new set of Michelins on mine and every time i go in one my heart skips a beat
I feel the same about the Goodrich Radial T/A's I just put on mine. There's all kinds of debris people drop around here as well. It's always fun using the roads as a personal obstacle course. /sarcasm

Quote:
yeah, fords have had those plugs in their window motors for years
Mine had utterly disintegrated. Which is ridiculous, since the bird has been kept in the garage for all but about a total of 3 years of its entire life. But there were thousands of bits of urethane bushing all in the motors. PIA to clean up, which makes me rather angry that I'm already having probs with the windows again.
But as I said, the drive gear itself is a craptastic design, being merely friction/press fit. It would have cost Ford about half a cent extra to permanently secure those two parts together or better yet mill it out of one solid piece of metal. sheesh

Quote:
if your not afraid of some hand tools and getting a bit dirty
I'm not bad when it comes to mechanics and servo mechanisms. As a consumer electronics tech, I've disassembled and reassembled my share of VCR, CD, etc. mechanisms, and some of those can be fairly complex (sun/planet gears, various alignments, etc.). I also overhauled the aforementioned TR7's transmission, but that was a manual. I've never done an auto tranny or complete engine rebuild. I'm a grease monkey at heart, if not by trade. Unfortunately, health issues generally keep me from diving into the really physically demanding work nowadays. I paid for some of the front suspension work in pain. Of course, after I recovered I knew it was well worth the trouble -- knew it going in, but you start wondering while you're hurting.

Quote:
frams will be the slow start-up-knock death of any modular ford engine. i know you've probably herd it all before, but without a antidrainback valve
The TG filters have a silicone anti-drainback valve. Check it out on Fram's site.

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 03-21-2014 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Merge posts
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 06:43 PM
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Was that a Ford OEM manifold or one of the Dormans?
If Ford, that would suck big time, and you'd think Ford would have designed the replacement to LAST, considering the bad press from the all-plastic POS design.
yeah, unfortunately a lot of manufacturers nowdays are going plastic on everything to save weight for fuel economy... intakes, thermostat housings, waterpump veins, etc.... works pretty well up front, but after a few years of baking under a hot hood(or in boiling hot coolant), it tends to get a wee bit brittle.... why dorman sells so many 3800GM manifolds as well as 4.6 and 5.4 Fords.

the new FRPP manifold i got my hands on was a lot taller and more robust them my old solid aluminum boat anchor. had to get half inch longer intake bolts and everything. we will see how long it lasts. that all aluminum horror may last forever, but its awful on the acceleration side of things, swapping it off woke my car up like a motor swap.

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Devotion is to be expected on any forum dedicated to specific vehicle(s).
But you have to keep in mind that throughout the majority of the Thunderbird's history, the car was designed to appeal to the masses, not collectors, hot rodders or enthusiasts -- notable exceptions being the early 2-seaters and the 2002 reintroduction.
yeah, i hate having to watch them go to the crusher, but as i spend a lot of time at the salvageyards looking for parts for all maner of junk im working on, ive seen my fair share die horrible deaths from severe and sometimes intentional abuse. they are beutiful cars, just not desirable alonside the lighter mustang with the same powertrain.

never did like that new release though, it thought it was a awful hideous piece of machinery. and that 3.9 engine or whatever out of the lincoln LS really wasn't a real good engine for anything but cruising.

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Mine had utterly disintegrated. Which is ridiculous, since the bird has been kept in the garage for all but about a total of 3 years of its entire life. But there were thousands of bits of urethane bushing all in the motors. PIA to clean up
yep that's the nature of the beast. they were put their to disintegrate if something was placed in the window opening while it was rolling up; like a child's neck for instance. personally, i hate the things, and would rather replace them with ball bearings like some have, but i also feel safer having them their in case my arm gets caught in the window one day and they rip apart instead of my bones.

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The TG filters have a silicone anti-drainback valve. Check it out on Fram's site.
huh, well i suppose that's something.

still not a fan of those orange bombs though. i spun on enough of them at wallyworld TLE. cut open my fair share too, ive just seen much better filters from purolator, and wix. few bucks more every 3-4k just feels like good insurance to me. plus everything i have tried but the motorcraft knocks on mine at every startup anymore, anti drainback valve or not. least with that on their i can go for 8 hours without starting, and still have a nice quiet turnover.

the relocation kit with vertical mounted filter helped quite a lot too, with the knocks and the filthy subframe; all the degreaser and rags were costing me

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Welp, you guys were right.

I found some moisture along the affected side of the intake and then discovered a tiny pool of coolant in front of the thermostat.

I yanked the #7 and #8 plugs this afternoon and confirmed your suspicions. The electrodes were clean; the "oil" (i.e., coolant mixed with a light film of dirt/grease) was on the top of the threads, making its way down.

I've done lots of work on my own cars, but it nevertheless looks like I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground, cuz that sure seemed like used engine oil to me. Had I caught it before it made its way to the electrodes the first time around, I wouldn't have suspected it was oil and jumped to those initial false conclusions.

Ok, so do you suppose it could be only a bad gasket or am I most likely looking at another defective Ford manifold? I know some of you say the manifolds have a limited lifespan, but hasn't anyone found ONLY a bad gasket on one of these? They don't always have to break, do they.. DO THEY???
In case it's a goner, how much does the PI intake run these days? Are there more than one brand, and if so, which is the generally preferred one?
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 06:21 PM
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The prefered intake is a Ford intake. People say to stay away from a Dorman because the 'rob power' however I have a Dorman on mine and it's been fine for 5 years and 30K miles.

John
1996 TBird LX 4.6
2001 Sable Wagon 3.0 Duratec
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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PI intake

I'm a tad confused.

From what I've been reading, it seems the intake with the aluminum crossover is the PI intake.

Could it be that the Ford stealership put a PI intake on my bird in 2005, or are there two different aluminum crossover manifolds from Ford?

I was under the impression that the PI manifold has larger, square-ish bores and the replacement Ford aluminum crossover manifold is identical to the original all-plastic one except for the metal crossover.

Are stealerships known to ever mount a PI intake on their customers' cars when they come in with a busted all-plastic one -- given that FRPP makes a PI intake? They charged me more for mine than the prices I'm seeing online for the FRPP PI intake now (even less markup).

Is this an enthusiast part that a stealership wouldn't normally supply?
Did I get royally ripped and don't even have a PI intake to show for it?
I can try to find the old receipt for the part number if anyone can tell from that whether I already have a PI intake (of some kind).

Lastly, does the computer auto-adjust to the enhanced flow or does it require tuning (and maybe a change of components like the MAF)? I imagine I'd have been charged for a retune, had they installed a PI intake and if it were necessary -- unless they did it and just didn't itemize that.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 07:59 PM
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you will have an updated NPI intake with the alum crossover. they made those late in the 90's to replace the all plastic nightmares leaving people stranded left right and center.

the PI intake was part of the new PI modular engine released in the early 2000's as an upgrade from the NPI engine. it and the cylinder heads have much larger ports, and a different shape to their coolant passages making the intake swap slightly more difficult on a NPI engine since you need to seal those coolant ports around the gasket and head with a bit of red RTV. the PI manifold never came all plastic.

i doubt very much the dealer put a PI on a NPI engine. they just raked you over the coals like usual.

pick yourself up a FRPP PI intake off amazon, some red RTV, and be done with it.

those dorman manifolds aren't worth the plastic their made from in the end. they come with integrated gaskets, smaller intake runners, extra plastic flashing all over the place blocking airflow inside, the PI ones don't come with brass threads for the coils, they give you some self taping screws and holes...

their just crap, complete crap. nothing but a service grade part for the poor old lady with her crown vic, that doesn't really care as long as the car keeps going for a while longer.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 12:45 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Read this thread thoroughly, then search for the questions you still have; answers are there.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=142765

People have been doing this swap since there was a tccoa, lol.

I found on my cars that the head surface was corroded and pitted pretty deep; I used a dental pick to remove all of the corrosion, and scotch-brited it afterwards.

If the corrosion is deep, fill the holes with RTV before installing the gasket.

If it's really bad, you may have to glue the manifold on with RTV; this is not recommended.

The pi gasket is larger, and will miss the bad places in most cases.

Good luck!!

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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