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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2014, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel rail options

With revisiting my DOHC swap, I think my header dilemma may be solved, so another problem I'm having is with the fuel rails. I'm going to need rails that will work with a Mach 1 intake, can be set up to run as a return system, and has a provision for the FRPS in the stock-ish location (near the front of the DS rail). It seems SOHC rails are a dime a dozen, but DOHC rails seem to almost not exist. Does anyone know of a decent but reasonably priced set of rails that fit the above criteria? I really don't want to spend $500 on a set of fuel rails - I would think virtually any e-bay special would flow better than stock rails, and I'm perfectly fine with used rails.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2014, 08:38 PM
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The 96-98 Cobra rails will work but the mounting points don't line up. The fuel lines hook up in the stock 96/97 location. I have a set here I planned on using for a c-head motor swap that is no longer going to happen. They could be yours for $80

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2014, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miller1995 View Post
The 96-98 Cobra rails will work but there mounting points don't line up. The fuel lines hook up in the stock 96/97 location. I have a set here I planned on using for a c-head motor swap that is no longer going to happen. They could be yours for $80

-Bryan
He's done a full pcm and chassis wiring swap, his fuel rails will require a fuel rail pressure sensor which to my knowledge would not be on a 96-98 cobra rail.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2014, 10:04 PM
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If you run them as returns you won't need the FRPS, and in fact there are no return style rails that use a FRPS, just a standard vacuum regulator.

-Matt
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
If you run them as returns you won't need the FRPS, and in fact there are no return style rails that use a FRPS, just a standard vacuum regulator.
Correct, it's not needed to function, HOWEVER, from what I've gathered, including information by Jerry himself, even when running a return system, it is basically a good idea to have - it allows the PCM to know what the fuel pressure is and compensate pulsewidth to match the fuel pressure if it strays from what its supposed to be and inject the right amount of fuel - This way, if fuel pressure drops for some reason (say low fuel, pump sucks air in a turn, for example), the PCM can compensate and keep the engine from going lean. Yes, the O2 sensors can detect it and end up correcting, but by that time you've already gone lean and potentially caused damage depending on your setup.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cougar281 View Post
Correct, it's not needed to function, HOWEVER, from what I've gathered, including information by Jerry himself, even when running a return system, it is basically a good idea to have - it allows the PCM to know what the fuel pressure is and compensate pulsewidth to match the fuel pressure if it strays from what its supposed to be and inject the right amount of fuel - This way, if fuel pressure drops for some reason (say low fuel, pump sucks air in a turn, for example), the PCM can compensate and keep the engine from going lean. Yes, the O2 sensors can detect it and end up correcting, but by that time you've already gone lean and potentially caused damage depending on your setup.
You do realize that you'll also have to add the wiring, and the code to support that into a tune (if it's even possible)?

Stock PCMs don't know about that FRPS.

RwP

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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You do realize that you'll also have to add the wiring, and the code to support that into a tune (if it's even possible)?

Stock PCMs don't know about that FRPS.

RwP
As Chris already pointed out, I'm running a full 2004 Mustang PCM conversion, FBFG2 strategy and using a Quarterhorse and Binary Editor for tuning - all of the support is there and all of the wiring is there.

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Best times:
PI 4.6L 95 XR7 Cougar: [email protected]
2004.5 Silverado Crew Cab/Long Bed/4x4 6.6L Duramax: [email protected] (Weighing in at over 7200#) on 10/19/2007
Dyno - 446.4RWHP/820.2RWTq on 6/13/2008
Pulling - 300.9' 3rd place finish 8/2011
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 12:33 PM
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If the strategy does indeed support it with the appropriate PWM fuel pump, then go for it.

As for fuel rails, Fore all the way.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 02:53 PM
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That's probably the only option then since there's not really any a factory fuel rail setup that would suit your needs.

Edit: This thought I had from another post did just came to mind though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
That's what I figured. However the thought occurred to me that using a FPR like the FORE F1i with two "inlet" ports and a single return, you could run the pump line to one inlet port and run the line to the fuel rail from the other inlet port(effectively using it as an outlet).

This assuming the two inlet ports both feed the same internal "chamber", allowing through-flow from one port to the other. The fuel flowing through will still act on the on the diaphragm and bleed out the return like it's supposed to.
That way you could theoretically use returnless Mach 1/99-04 Cobra rails in a return system. Although obviously it wouldn't be cheap with the AN lines and regulator, and I'm not sure how well that setup would actually work(I have no formal training in fluid dynamics lol) but it's a thought.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 05-23-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-24-2014, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
That's probably the only option then since there's not really any a factory fuel rail setup that would suit your needs.

Edit: This thought I had from another post did just came to mind though...



That way you could theoretically use returnless Mach 1/99-04 Cobra rails in a return system. Although obviously it wouldn't be cheap with the AN lines and regulator, and I'm not sure how well that setup would actually work(I have no formal training in fluid dynamics lol) but it's a thought.
My guess is that wouldn't work - I suspect what would happen is the fuel would have an unrestricted path back to the tank via the second inlet port. The one thing I could POSSIBLY see working would be to tee the supply from the tank and put a regulator off that plumbed into the return.

'95 Cougar - 2002 Explorer engine, 2004 Mustang PTP2 PCM

Best times:
PI 4.6L 95 XR7 Cougar: [email protected]
2004.5 Silverado Crew Cab/Long Bed/4x4 6.6L Duramax: [email protected] (Weighing in at over 7200#) on 10/19/2007
Dyno - 446.4RWHP/820.2RWTq on 6/13/2008
Pulling - 300.9' 3rd place finish 8/2011
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-24-2014, 06:19 PM
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No no, Think about how the Fore regulator is designed, there's no way for high pressure fuel to get fed to the return from the second inlet port since the second inlet port goes to the lone port on the returnless rails, not the return line. The regulator is still the restriction and fuel can only return to the tank from the regulator's return port. It'll act as an inline pressure bleed.

It's essentially the same layout as a stock return system only the pressure bleed will be before the injectors rather than after, and that's where my only concern lies, that being if certain injectors could end up dumping uneven amounts of fuel due to the regulator's location in the circuit.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 05-24-2014 at 06:37 PM.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-27-2014, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
No no, Think about how the Fore regulator is designed, there's no way for high pressure fuel to get fed to the return from the second inlet port since the second inlet port goes to the lone port on the returnless rails, not the return line. The regulator is still the restriction and fuel can only return to the tank from the regulator's return port. It'll act as an inline pressure bleed.

It's essentially the same layout as a stock return system only the pressure bleed will be before the injectors rather than after, and that's where my only concern lies, that being if certain injectors could end up dumping uneven amounts of fuel due to the regulator's location in the circuit.
Sorry, I mis-read your post - For some reason I thought you meant connect the supply to one inlet and the rails to the other for it to flow through. I re-read your post and the specs on the regulator and what you said makes sense now.

I'm not an expert, but I'd think that would work more or less the same as the returnless system, just rather than a variable fuel pump controlling the pressure, it's now a regulator just before the rails.

'95 Cougar - 2002 Explorer engine, 2004 Mustang PTP2 PCM

Best times:
PI 4.6L 95 XR7 Cougar: [email protected]
2004.5 Silverado Crew Cab/Long Bed/4x4 6.6L Duramax: [email protected] (Weighing in at over 7200#) on 10/19/2007
Dyno - 446.4RWHP/820.2RWTq on 6/13/2008
Pulling - 300.9' 3rd place finish 8/2011
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