Thinking about getting a t-bird for next project. - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-2014, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thinking about getting a t-bird for next project.

Hey fellas I'm a 302 mustang man but I'm thinking that a t-bird woild be a cool project. I'm not looking to make a race car just a nice cruiser w around 280-300 rwhp range. I like the looks of the later birds with the 4.6 but I know pretty much next to nothing about that segments aftermarket. I'm assuming y'all are using 4.6 mustang parts? What parts are a "direct swap" and what needs to be fabed up a bit (ie need a new hood for intake clearance etc)?Are my horsepower goals obtainable without having to get a second mortgage?

Thanks for any insight
Mike

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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-2014, 11:52 PM
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Brakes and suspension first.

Gears next.

Don't forget the J-Mod (see the tech articles from the main web page).

And - after all that - save up and do the 32V (or 4V as it's known in Mustang parlance) swap to a Mark VIII or Cobra 4.6 motor.

RwP

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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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I get steps of a "restomod." So a motor swap is the way to go? Is it due to lack of aftermarket support or motor potential, or both? I'm trying to decide between the 5.0 model and the 4.6
Ps: j-mod- shift kit

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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher View Post
Are my horsepower goals obtainable without having to get a second mortgage?

Thanks for any insight
Mike
only if you know what you're doing. Are you gonna be doing everything? How much do you know about 4.6 modular motors and engine building in general?
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Yeah I'm a lot more comfortable w the pushrod 5.0. Fox and 94/95 mustangs get in the 300 horse range w the Tfs topend kit and supporting cast. Let me ask y'all this, do y'all know if the front fascia from the 4.6 tbird fit on the 93 or whatever year came wit the 5.0? I guess I should prob ask that in the 5.0 section but anyways, y'all know? So this forum is broken down by engine type not make/model/year?
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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 09:54 AM
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The Cougars had the same basic front clip (chrome/painted were the major differences) from 1991 to 1995. That may be a choice also.

And since a) the NA 3.8 was available all years, b) the 3.8SC was available 1989-1995, c) the 5.0HO from 1991 to 1993, and d) the 4.6 from 1994 to 1997, it made more sense to do it by motor for the motor-specific stuff. Most of the rest doesn't really matter what year or motor,

For the TFS topend, you'd need a hood scoop or a new hood to clear - but that's a good choice anyway.

If possible, grab a 1993 since that had the later chassis and several of the wiring improvements (electrically and subchassis wise the split is 1989-1992, 1993-1997).

(I also happen to like the 1993 and earlier front clips, and the 1989-1993 dash layout. Others have different choices. Meh. Pick what you like.)

As to that front clip - yes, but you'll need header panel, bumper cover, bumper support, and hood to swap them. And if it's 1996-1997, those parts are all with the holes for the side cladding.

RwP

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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 10:10 AM
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What all is needed to get a 4.6 2v in the 280whp range? And what kind of quarter mile times can I expect with that power level with no weight reduction and 3.73s through a 4r70w?
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 10:57 AM
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What all is needed to get a 4.6 2v in the 280whp range? And what kind of quarter mile times can I expect with that power level with no weight reduction and 3.73s through a 4r70w?
Here's a few things.
http://members.tccoa.com/jl1997bird/

-Jonathan
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The "High Mileage Thrasher" 1997 JL 4.6 bird!



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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 12:42 PM
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Two things to do,
higher compression and great flowing intake and heads.
Everything else is the same,
except our heaps are 400 lbs. heavier than a fox.

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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher View Post
So this forum is broken down by engine type not make/model/year?
Make/model/year? we ALL have the same make/model (for the most part, that is....whole point of TCCoA )
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Two things to do,
higher compression and great flowing intake and heads
That's every internal combustion engine. What are y'all using for heads and intakes?
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 04:04 PM
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That's every internal combustion engine. What are y'all using for heads and intakes?
Depends on how much you want to spend..

You could get the TFS street/strip H/C/I, or you could just get ported PI stuff with some cams (~270 crank HP N/A).

You could get some stage 2 cams. IIRC stage 2 you don't have to notch the pistons for the valves, but you need to upgrade the springs.

Literally 99% of the Mustang 4.6 2V stuff will "plug-n-play". If you haven't dealt with any EEC-V stuff, you'll need a special tune for most of the engine stuff. You can run a PI swap without it and be fine for awhile, but you really need a tune for every major change.

The only thing I can thing of engine related that won't work is the engine harness and a few connectors, but that's self explanitory.

-Daniel

My driving is a constant struggle between wanting good gas mileage and driving like I'm Mario Andretti.

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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:01 PM
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TFS, heads, cams, intake.
If it would ever stop raining I'd make some runs.
Also, did I say there cars are heavy.

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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:05 PM
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Don't waste your time on PI heads. Just bite the bullet and get TFS heads.

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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I was doing some reading on them. They seem to be comparitable to the pushrods gt40 heads in terms of power. Are y'all having to rev the hell outta em to make power or is the Tfs head streetable enough?
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah I was doing some reading on them. They seem to be comparitable to the pushrods gt40 heads in terms of power. Are y'all having to rev the hell outta em to make power or is the Tfs head streetable enough?
as long as you don't go crazy on the cams, the TFS heads are streetable. But then again, the cams play a huge role on the final power production numbers. So it's a give and take. In any event you're looking at a multi-thousand dollar setup. R429460 can give you a ball park figure of what he spend to get to where he is at with his setup.
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Trying to finish a supercharged mustang gt now so it might be a minute before I can get into something else. I was just seeing what kind of options I had w the 4.6. So most of the off the shelf mustang performance parts will work w the t-bird?
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 07:08 PM
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Literally 99% of the Mustang 4.6 2V stuff will "plug-n-play". If you haven't dealt with any EEC-V stuff, you'll need a special tune for most of the engine stuff. You can run a PI swap without it and be fine for awhile, but you really need a tune for every major change.

The only thing I can thing of engine related that won't work is the engine harness and a few connectors, but that's self explanitory.
Will 2v supercharger kits more or less bolt up as well? And does anyone do mail order tunes for these cars or will 96-04 Mustang tunes work?
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 08:07 PM
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Will 2v supercharger kits more or less bolt up as well? And does anyone do mail order tunes for these cars or will 96-04 Mustang tunes work?
Depends, if it's roots & twin screw types (on top of the engine) then yes, but you will more than likely need a cowl hood.

Centrifugal superchargers can fit because they just mount to the front of the engine and run off the belt drive that way. Only problem is, just because it fits doesn't mean it fits well. They're pretty squeezed in there. You can work with it, but I know you don't have much room after all the plumbing is done.

Also yes, Don LaSota does them, and a lot of people swear by him. Best best though is a dyno tune.

http://www.lasotaracing.com/

-Daniel

My driving is a constant struggle between wanting good gas mileage and driving like I'm Mario Andretti.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=134659&page=4

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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Centrifugal apples and oranges.

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Depends, if it's roots & twin screw types (on top of the engine) then yes, but you will more than likely need a cowl hood.

Centrifugal superchargers can fit because they just mount to the front of the engine and run off the belt drive that way. Only problem is, just because it fits doesn't mean it fits well. They're pretty squeezed in there. You can work with it, but I know you don't have much room after all the plumbing is done.

Also yes, Don LaSota does them, and a lot of people swear by him. Best best though is a dyno tune.

http://www.lasotaracing.com/
I know it's not really helping anyone due to apples and oranges but when I put the Vortech my 95 mustang I had to "rig" some stuff up to make it fit. Had to grind down t-stat housing and stuff like that. The kit was designed for the car but its a tight squeeze and now stuff like plug changes will be difficult. Anyways thanks for y'all's help guys.
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Ps: I think it's a deal breaker boys for the 4.6. Darn
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-...FTQQ7AodjXkAFw and you don't even get an intake!
vs
http://treperformance.com/i-90334-tr...ford-5-0l.html
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 12:12 AM
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They are a bit more expensive.... I just sold my SN95 to another stang guy who is pulling his 4.6 out of his 98 to put in my old 5.0 and t45.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 12:53 AM
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If you think 4.6 2vs are expensive then you'd better stay away from the 4.6 4vs.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 07:31 AM
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For me, 94-97 is the only choice. Aesthetically speaking, the dashboard is re-designed w/ dual airbags (much nicer and safer), and you don't have those annoying, clickety automatic seatbelts.

And you get the 4RW70 trans instead of the AOD (which needs 4.10's just to get off the line).

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 09:11 AM
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Ps: I think it's a deal breaker boys for the 4.6. Darn
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-...FTQQ7AodjXkAFw and you don't even get an intake!
vs
http://treperformance.com/i-90334-tr...ford-5-0l.html
I paid less than that, plus I had them installed by RobertP.

But that was in 2010.

Just putting on the TFS heads and cams, .6 seconds faster.

But there was a guy in Michigan who raced a 98 GT in O/SA, ran a best of 12.45.
Want to guess how much that combo cost to build.

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 01:06 PM
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You can forget about mustang exhaust stuff working unless you have fabrication/welding skills.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 01:18 PM
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They are a bit more expensive.... I just sold my SN95 to another stang guy who is pulling his 4.6 out of his 98 to put in my old 5.0 and t45.
You mean T5 right? T-45s are in the modular bell pattern

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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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You can forget about mustang exhaust stuff working unless you have fabrication/welding skills.
But the stock exhaust manifolds will bolt up to the trick flow heads? Noob here sorry. This would be my 1st attempt at modifying modulars

Last edited by Birdwatcher; 05-30-2014 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Just cuz
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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Ok one more question: I know there are a million different variables to this question but which do y'all think would be quicker, a 5.0 w stock short block and the trick flow top end kit or the say a 97 w stock short block 4.6 and the Tfs top end kit? I'd guess the 5.0 would be in the ball park of 270-300 rwhp hp. (Dyno jet)
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher View Post
Ok one more question: I know there are a million different variables to this question but which do y'all think would be quicker, a 5.0 w stock short block and the trick flow top end kit or the say a 97 w stock short block 4.6 and the Tfs top end kit? I'd guess the 5.0 would be in the ball park of 270-300 rwhp hp. (Dyno jet)
Its all about the drive train. I make in the 250-270 range on a dynojet and I lay respectable numbers down at the track on slicks with minimal weight reduction, out of a car I originally built with the idea of autocrossing. More importantly what is your goal for the car? What do you want to use it for? Grocery getter? Daily driver? Autocross? Drag strip? Time attack? Stop light racer?

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
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