96 4.6 Bird spewing oil out the exhaust? also #2 misfire - TCCoA Forums
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Trunk Monkey
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 87
Garage
96 4.6 Bird spewing oil out the exhaust? also #2 misfire

Took on a project a few weeks back and picked up a wrecked bird. Just got the engine running again and noticed an oil drip from the rear exhaust while the engine is running. Pulled all the plugs and none show any oil. There is a rednecked exhaust on the car where they cut out the cat and all the 02 sensors. So I have check engine codes for miles.

Before the car was wrecked the previous owner had installed a new intake manifold. It has the aluminum cross over and looks brand new. So I'm not worried about that. The oil is coming from the exhaust in such a manner that concerns me. With the compression of the engine I get a steady spray from the exhaust. No blue smoke and the engine seems to be running perfectly aside from the misfire.

Things i've replaced:

all 8 plugs
all 8 wires
both coils

I'm assuming this is oil because it is staining my garage floor, and normal dirty water won't do that.

Any input or advice?
aura1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 05:32 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Home Sweet Home: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 11,702
Garage
Replace / Reinstall the O2 sensors. The valve stem's in the heads of early MN12's were prone to fail and lead to oil leaks that will lead to burning oil and blowing it out the exhaust. The only way to remedy that is to rebuild or replace the heads.

How many miles are on the car?

You might try running some Seafoam through the gas tank to clean the intake and injectors.

What weight oil is in the car? When was it last changed? Drop some Seafoam in the crank case (as per instructions on can) run for about 500 miles and change the oil.

You probably will want to replace the PCV valves too.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 08:46 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,483
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Sounds like the car is(and has been) running rich, especially with a misfire, and the black you see is built up soot dripping out of it.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 08:51 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Home Sweet Home: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 11,702
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Sounds like the car is(and has been) running rich, especially with a misfire, and the black you see is built up soot dripping out of it.
If that's the case - replace the cats too while you're at it. They'll be clogged from one end to the other.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 10:02 AM
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paramus
Posts: 58
If its been running rich for a prolonged period of time, there maybe enough raw fuel in the oil to actually dilute it enough to pass through the rings and pump out the exhaust. It has happened to me before, Id go get the 19.99 oil change special from auto zone and try it. Also how bad is your miss? Is it just a light vibration or is it a dead cylinder?
93mark8rules is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 87
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93mark8rules View Post
If its been running rich for a prolonged period of time, there maybe enough raw fuel in the oil to actually dilute it enough to pass through the rings and pump out the exhaust. It has happened to me before, Id go get the 19.99 oil change special from auto zone and try it. Also how bad is your miss? Is it just a light vibration or is it a dead cylinder?
Sorry for the lack of responding guys! Sister had a baby and I've spent the last two days on a plane.

The oil is dirty as hell and unknown weight, so it will be getting an oil swap as soon as possible. The exhaust was on the bottom of my list, but I think I'll go ahead and replace the entire system. I'm sure the cat is absolute garbage at this point.

At one time the car was cared for, but I would say it hasn't felt the love of a gentle wrench in a LONG while. The plugs were all out of gap and quite bad looking. The wires were brittle and fell apart in my hand. So I was quite hopeful that would take care of the misfire. The misfire seems to be only noticeable at idle and light throttle. It is not a dead cylinder. I was leaning towards bad injector till I found this oil issue.

Again, no blue smoke, so I don't believe that oil is entering the cylinder chamber and the plugs are clean. I'm thinking that with the Rich conditions of the fuel (I assume that has alot to do with the putrid un-burnt fuel smell) that it may be leaving some type of nasty in the exhaust. And when combined with the moisture of the air is causing the pipes to spit it out.

Any suggestions on a good exhaust system? The one that's been put on the car now sounds like absolute garbage and has way too much crackle.

Once I replace the 02 sensor and the oil change, and the new exhaust, I'm hoping to remedy most of whats wrong with the engine.

It currently has 154,00 miles but runs like a gem...when it is running that is. Trans seems a bit jerky around 30-35, but that's it for the drivetrain.

The suspension will need an entire overhaul. Luckily I work for a dealership and get $65/hour labor rates. So I'll likely just have the dealership replace everything with provided parts. I'm sure I could do most of the suspension work on my own, but I have a 1.5 car garage with alley parking. Not much space.

I suppose I should notate the end goal with this unit. Money is not much of a concern as this is becoming a project and not a must-drive-daily unit. That being said saving up for an exhaust and similar parts isn't of high concern. I plan on keeping the original engine and tranny till I can't. I just need the damn thing to run perfect, drive perfect, and look perfect.

So for an MN12....that's probably about $32,000 in work, right?
aura1 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 06:22 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Home Sweet Home: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 11,702
Garage
Yea, just replace the oil & skip the Seafoam treatment in the crank case for now. I do still recommend running a can of Seafoam through the gas tank. That'll clean the injectors and burn a lot of the carbon out.

Mandrel exhaust systems is the only way to go for these cars. There's a thread on them here I'll look it up and link it in a minute.

here ya go: http://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust/...t-systems.html

http://www.mandrelexhaustsystems.com...underbird.html

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 02-29-2016 at 06:28 PM.
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 09:34 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Tbird Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Yea, just replace the oil & skip the Seafoam treatment in the crank case for now. I do still recommend running a can of Seafoam through the gas tank. That'll clean the injectors and burn a lot of the carbon out.

Mandrel exhaust systems is the only way to go for these cars.
There's a thread on them here I'll look it up and link it in a minute.

here ya go: http://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust/...t-systems.html

Car Exhaust - Ford - 89-97 Ford Thunderbird - Mandrel Exhaust Systems
Just installed a free flow cat back, xpipe, mandrel exhaust on mine, and good golly miss Molly, unbelievable difference.

I hope your car is soon running great.
Tbird Bob is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 87
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Yea, just replace the oil & skip the Seafoam treatment in the crank case for now. I do still recommend running a can of Seafoam through the gas tank. That'll clean the injectors and burn a lot of the carbon out.

Mandrel exhaust systems is the only way to go for these cars. There's a thread on them here I'll look it up and link it in a minute.

here ya go: http://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust/...t-systems.html

Car Exhaust - Ford - 89-97 Ford Thunderbird - Mandrel Exhaust Systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird Bob View Post
Just installed a free flow cat back, xpipe, mandrel exhaust on mine, and good golly miss Molly, unbelievable difference.

I hope your car is soon running great.
That's actually fairly cheap for an exhaust. I'm assuming that it's aluminized instead of stainless? Not a big deal considering this car will be a sunday cruiser, and probably never see snow or rain again.

Without posting another thread, any muffler suggestions? I want something with a growl but not so much drone. I'd prefer to keep it relatively quiet till I build revs. I'm picky on exhaust for some reason. Not a fan of in your face setups. I prefer a nice tone that doesn't sound like a truck.

So is it collectively assumed that once the 02 sensor are back in place and reading, along with a new exhaust and either cats removed or replaced, that I should lose this oil blow-out? Or atleast greatly reduce it?

-Zach
aura1 is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 09:36 AM
5th Gear Poster
 
Tbird Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by aura1 View Post
That's actually fairly cheap for an exhaust. I'm assuming that it's aluminized instead of stainless? Not a big deal considering this car will be a sunday cruiser, and probably never see snow or rain again.

Without posting another thread, any muffler suggestions? I want something with a growl but not so much drone. I'd prefer to keep it relatively quiet till I build revs. I'm picky on exhaust for some reason. Not a fan of in your face setups. I prefer a nice tone that doesn't sound like a truck.

So is it collectively assumed that once the 02 sensor are back in place and reading, along with a new exhaust and either cats removed or replaced, that I should lose this oil blow-out? Or atleast greatly reduce it?

-Zach
Zach, here is a great read on exhaust and muffler selection. Exhaust Function 101 - Automotive Forums .com Car Chat
Tbird Bob is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 02:08 PM
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,715
Quote:
Originally Posted by aura1 View Post
So is it collectively assumed that once the 02 sensor are back in place and reading, along with a new exhaust and either cats removed or replaced, that I should lose this oil blow-out? Or atleast greatly reduce it?

-Zach
Putting o2 sensors back on a system that requires them is huge.

It is most likely soot dripping out the tailpipe. Oil comes out the tailpipe in the form of blue smoke.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:39 PM
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paramus
Posts: 58
It could really just be running that bad that its making soot.. I have had oil literally spraying out of my tailpipe once but I cracked the ring lands off one piston.Oddly enough I was down on power but It idled fine. When I tore it down the bore was the only thing holding the side of the piston together. But like everyone said do the right stuff fix the exhaust get good O2's installed and see how it is. If youre not smoking the place out the engine is probably fine. Also an old time trick is to get a pump can and put some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and let it soak few days. Then take the spark plugs back out crank the engine so you get the excess oil out (leaving too much oil in the bores can cause hydro lock and bend a rod). Then put the plugs back in and run it. Rev the engine up to about 3500 rpm for a minute or so and the heat in the cylinder should break up the carbon that the marvel softened sitting on the rings and make them seal better. It will smoke like your house is on fire for a few mins so be ready. Then follow with a seafoam on the top end.
93mark8rules is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 87
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93mark8rules View Post
It could really just be running that bad that its making soot.. I have had oil literally spraying out of my tailpipe once but I cracked the ring lands off one piston.Oddly enough I was down on power but It idled fine. When I tore it down the bore was the only thing holding the side of the piston together. But like everyone said do the right stuff fix the exhaust get good O2's installed and see how it is. If youre not smoking the place out the engine is probably fine. Also an old time trick is to get a pump can and put some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and let it soak few days. Then take the spark plugs back out crank the engine so you get the excess oil out (leaving too much oil in the bores can cause hydro lock and bend a rod). Then put the plugs back in and run it. Rev the engine up to about 3500 rpm for a minute or so and the heat in the cylinder should break up the carbon that the marvel softened sitting on the rings and make them seal better. It will smoke like your house is on fire for a few mins so be ready. Then follow with a seafoam on the top end.

I am almost positive I have no internal engine issues. How do these engines cope with seafoam treatment in the upper cylinder? I know there's plenty of smoke with the treatment, but I also hear horror stories. Ran it on a grand-am once and the police were called once the whole neighborhood couldn't see past their nose.

I'll probably pull the injectors off and atleast replace the #2 injector for good measure. I might as well replace em all once I've got the rail, but as of right now my TB won't come off...

-Zach
aura1 is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 06:58 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Home Sweet Home: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 11,702
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by aura1 View Post
That's actually fairly cheap for an exhaust. I'm assuming that it's aluminized instead of stainless? Not a big deal considering this car will be a sunday cruiser, and probably never see snow or rain again.

Without posting another thread, any muffler suggestions? I want something with a growl but not so much drone. I'd prefer to keep it relatively quiet till I build revs. I'm picky on exhaust for some reason. Not a fan of in your face setups. I prefer a nice tone that doesn't sound like a truck.

...

-Zach
They offer both - Aluminized or 304 Stainless for an extra $100.

As far as mufflers, I love my Borla's (Pro XS - Offset in Center out). Click through the video links in my gallery to hear how they sound. (The old gallery not the new Garage.)

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 10:25 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
Tbird Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
They offer both - Aluminized or 304 Stainless for an extra $100.

As far as mufflers, I love my Borla's (Pro XS - Offset in Center out). Click through the video links in my gallery to hear how they sound. (The old gallery not the new Garage.)
I watched the video. Those are bad azz mufflers. If my bird heard those he'd make me rip off the Flowmasters.
Tbird Bob is offline  
post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 87
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
They offer both - Aluminized or 304 Stainless for an extra $100.

As far as mufflers, I love my Borla's (Pro XS - Offset in Center out). Click through the video links in my gallery to hear how they sound. (The old gallery not the new Garage.)

I'm new at this gallery thing. But I did find a video of the bird on a Dyno. I really didn't mind that sound at all. Can you link me to the other vids you were talking about?
aura1 is offline  
post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 02:34 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Home Sweet Home: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 11,702
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird Bob View Post
I watched the video. Those are bad azz mufflers. If my bird heard those he'd make me rip off the Flowmasters.
Thanks so much Bob. A beefy cam, Kooks headers in the front and mandrel bent pipes in the middle help too.

LOL at your bird making you rip the Flowmasters off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura1 View Post
I'm new at this gallery thing. But I did find a video of the bird on a Dyno. I really didn't mind that sound at all. Can you link me to the other vids you were talking about?
Here ya go. Make sure to watch the last one with the Honda Civic. It was one of my favorite races - and you can really hear the exhaust well.

My Car

Racing Videos
Woodman likes this.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-02-2016 at 03:48 PM.
Trunk Monkey is offline  
post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 05:42 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,869
Garage
Nice post, TM!!

The civic video is awesome; Exhaust sounds great, too.


Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 01:23 PM
PostWhore
 
V8ThunderCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cisco, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by aura1 View Post
I am almost positive I have no internal engine issues. How do these engines cope with seafoam treatment in the upper cylinder? I know there's plenty of smoke with the treatment, but I also hear horror stories. Ran it on a grand-am once and the police were called once the whole neighborhood couldn't see past their nose.

-Zach
I haven't noticed anyone hydrolock their MN-12 engines with seafoam yet. The worst I've seen is the engine dying because too much was added too fast but that doesn't cause any problems other than having to restart the car and continue the process. After letting the car sit for at least 30 minutes I always take a trip on the highway to keep the neighbors from calling the fire department.

-Randy-
V8ThunderCat is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome