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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Engine swap?

I found a sweet deal on a clean cougar. No rust anywhere. The problem is that it is or was a 5.0 car. I have a low mile PI 4.6 engine and trans in my garage. How feasible of a swap would it be to drop that into the car? I know I'll need some 4.6 specific parts, but is it worth messing with or should I keep looking for a 4.6 car?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 06:17 PM
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When you say "is or was" does that mean it's currently a rolling chassis? The swap is feasible but you'll need the engine, computer and transmission the wiring for a 4.6 car, which will require some tweaks to work with the dash wiring.

-Matt
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Its a roller. If I end up with it, I want to try to make everything work, if possible. AC is a must. It may be more work than feasible. I did find a 302 out of a 94 mustang for $300 that's very close to me. So going back with that is always an option.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 07:49 PM
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How much is it? That will determine if it's worth it or not.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 07:50 PM
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I'd consider the Mustang 302 instead; the 94/95 were the same basic motor, with only the IAT moved to the air box And you can drill and tap to put it back on the intake if you wish.

How much of the wiring is missing? Do you need any of the A/C parts? How about the transmission? (NOW would be a great time to do a M5R2 or what not behind a 302.)

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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I can get the car for damn near free. A little horsetrading for parts I don't need. Where would I find that transmission at? I can get a t5 fairly easily.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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All of the wiring is there.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't seen the car in person. I talked to the guy on the phone and he sent some pics. Basically he bought the car for the drivetrain to put into a 93 Mustang roller. He didn't pull any wiring, the a/c is all there. So yeah, it would be way better just going back with the 5.0.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8nick View Post
I haven't seen the car in person. I talked to the guy on the phone and he sent some pics. Basically he bought the car for the drivetrain to put into a 93 Mustang roller. He didn't pull any wiring, the a/c is all there. So yeah, it would be way better just going back with the 5.0.
It sounds like a good candidate for a 5.0 to go back into. I guess the bigger question is around what you want to do with the car.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I'm not a fan of the interior. So it would eventually get swapped. It would be a driver, but it would need more power than the stock 302 has.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 11:11 PM
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The wiring that's there is pretty useless without a 5.0/AOD to plug it into, you'd definitely need the 4.6 stuff if you don't want a major wiring project since there are so many extra circuits.

Ideally you should get the EEC/CCRM harness, engine harness, transmission harness and PCM out of a 96-97(94/5 would work but needs even more modifications with the PI motor), and splice in connectors to make them mate up with the stock main underhood harness and dash harness properly.

EDIT: You'd also need to run the transmission wiring circuits from the EEC harness through the dash since the AOD isn't electronic, 94-97 dashes have that wiring integral. There are several circuits that need to be run from various places and may be more work than most would be willing to tackle. If you do a 94+ dash swap simultaneously(I recommend 94/5 since the firewall connector is the same size and basic pinout as 89-93) this would be easier.


I have to agree with others, find a 5.0 to put back in it, it really is a lot simpler. Find the
GT40 heads and intake out of a 96 Explorer and it'll basically be the equivelant to a 4.6 PI

-Matt
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 05:11 AM
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Honestly, if you're not planning doing something the in the extracurricular world (i.e. racing) then I would skip it. Finding a 23-24 year old drive train to put into a 25+ year old car that has a 25+ year old everything else just to drive around doesn't make a lot of sense. You can be assured that the entire suspension needs updated/replaced and things like the wiring, fuel system, gas tank and all of the other OEM parts that are now impossible to find just piles on top of it all.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Honestly, if you're not planning doing something the in the extracurricular world (i.e. racing) then I would skip it. Finding a 23-24 year old drive train to put into a 25+ year old car that has a 25+ year old everything else just to drive around doesn't make a lot of sense. You can be assured that the entire suspension needs updated/replaced and things like the wiring, fuel system, gas tank and all of the other OEM parts that are now impossible to find just piles on top of it all.
Your always trying to talk guys out of the job...lol
Sometimes to certain people the juice is worth the squeeze ..I personally have a love for 90s cars and will probably be in them for along time to come..birds Cougars and marks are my favorite followed by trans am camaro and the mustang of course ...I do prefer 94 on up models though..
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
Your always trying to talk guys out of the job...lol
Sometimes to certain people the juice is worth the squeeze ..I personally have a love for 90s cars and will probably be in them for along time to come..birds Cougars and marks are my favorite followed by trans am camaro and the mustang of course ...I do prefer 94 on up models though..
It's called being realistic, the question is "how feasible will it be?", not "wouldn't this swap be cool?". I don't agree with MaddMartigan that an old car project would only be worthwhile for racing - I never go racing, I like tinkering even more than driving, and when I am driving I prefer it to be a car I tinkered on. - Where I agree with him is that the potential for what the OP wants, which is a driver, has the very real potential to become a project car, and project cars are have a horrible habit of never getting finished.

To me it seems missing and hard to find(i.e. MN12 specific) components will plague putting a 5.0 back in, and a complete rewiring will plague a 4.6/4R70w transplant. Finding a suitable doner car would almost be necessary now that these are uncommon at junkyards, and at that stage of things you have to question why not just drive the doner car?

-Matt
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 01:55 PM
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OK, here's a better dose of realism:
  • These cars aren't collectible.
  • They aren't classic.
  • They aren't unique.
  • They don't hold their value.
  • The OEM parts are becoming harder and harder to find.
  • The aftermarket is non-existent.

I've had mine for 23 years of it's 25 year life. I only still have it because I still have it. Right now it's cheaper to do something with what I have than it is to buy something else.

To each his own. If doing all of this work just to get a car to drive is worth it then game on. It's just my opinion that it's not worth doing. Opinions vary obviously.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1992 Ford Thunderbird SC

Coast High Peformance 347 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.27 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
M5R2
Burned Chip for SN95 T4M0 ECM
OMGHI2U

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 02:52 PM
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I'll add only to elaborate your last point: There IS no aftermarket for these cars, other than what fits a Mustang and can be modified to fit our cars.

Except the parts made by dedicated members here or at SCCoA, there's nothing.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
OK, here's a better dose of realism:
  • These cars aren't collectible.
  • They aren't classic.
  • They aren't unique.
  • They don't hold their value.
  • The OEM parts are becoming harder and harder to find.
  • The aftermarket is non-existent.
  • Good. We can actually be real when talking about our cars without uttering the silly word "investment".
  • No, but nor are countless other older cars I'd rather see than the predictable viagra club entries at cruise nights.
  • BS, That's the one thing these cars legitimately are in 2018, they are the anti-everything the current automotive market stands for!
  • Once again, good. This keeps the motivation to sell out low and the cost of entry nil, perfect for a project.
  • Agreed, but there is room to improvise in many areas.
  • The aftermarket is overrated, for Mustangs a third of it is cheesy exterior dress up, the next third are obscenely expensive solutions in search of a problem(actually we have many of these through SCP...), and the last third are solutions to bandaid the often subpar chassis(Fox/SN95), which, minus the weight and some rigidity issues, these aren't bad out of the box for the time.

I would add this one much more damning point though:

  • They are difficult to work on

Few cars have such a diabolical mix of hard to access nuts/bolts, bolts that break in the worst places and rust in the most impossible to fix areas than an MN12. I could build ten Tbirds or Cougars again with your six bullet points in mind, but this one makes me hesitate. This chassis made me appreciate the simple genius of leaf springs lol

Quote:
I've had mine for 23 years of it's 25 year life. I only still have it because I still have it. Right now it's cheaper to do something with what I have than it is to buy something else.

To each his own. If doing all of this work just to get a car to drive is worth it then game on. It's just my opinion that it's not worth doing. Opinions vary obviously.
I'm going on 13 I think, and I'll freely agree that mine's still around for the same reason, but at the end of the day it ticks all the boxes I want in a car. There are a few cars I'd trade it for without hesitation, but they're all configured basically the same way, which is a biggish American 2 door with a V8, RWD and a stick, and sadly nobody's offered up a 69 428 Mercury Cyclone to swap .

As long as the OP has similar sentiments, more power to him, I just think he'd be better off buying a complete running MN12, or at least start with a 4.6 chassis to make the swap straight forward.

-Matt

Last edited by XR7-4.6; 01-13-2018 at 11:32 PM.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 08:11 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Swapping the wiring is the worst part of an engine swap; swapping anything past the engine connector requires extreme attention to detail.

But every possible swap is here, somewhere, already.


Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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