1996 tbird swap questions - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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1996 tbird swap questions

Hey all. Just bought a 1996 tbird lx with a 4.6 and the engine started knocking before I even made it home. So my question is if I buy a 99-04 mustang full motor it'll swap straight in with no modifications right? Just looking for some clarification. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 08:08 PM
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A 96-08 2V 4.6 will swap; those are in a lot of vehicles.

Except for the intake, You need to swap everything on the outside of the engine with yours.



A better swap is a PI-based Explorer swap; there's a lot here on every possible option on these cars' swaps.



PI, DOHC, Coyote; it's pretty much all been done at this point.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
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Oh OK, thanks! So I'd have to swap back to a npi intake? Kinda confused. I know I'd have to swap all my accessories but I hoped other than that it's a straight drop in.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 11:36 AM
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I don't know why he said intake, yes you do use the PI one, unless the motor was sourced from a truck or van. I think what he meant to say was everything 'attached to' the intake - fuel rails/injectors, vacuum lines, throttle body, EGR stuff, wiring etc. you transfer fro pm your current engine to the new one. You need to use your existing exhaust manifolds as well.

-Matt
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Oh OK. Thanks alot!
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 04:07 PM
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I meant what I said, the intake stays, Everything else swaps.

The inlet elbow won't plumb vacuum the same, and the fuel rails won't come out near the fuel lines, so only the intake itself stays.



If you DO get an explorer engine, you will need a 95 front cover, lol.

Or a bunch of RTV.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 08:25 PM
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You will also need a tune and a tuner to get the full potential out of it as well.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 11:01 PM
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Don't forget your oil pan and pickup tube from your car also.

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You will also need a tune and a tuner to get the full potential out of it as well.
This is true but you can use your stock MAF and injectors and the car will run fine. Just mentioned it because when people hear they have to get their car tuned it seems to scare people away from doing the swap.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draetech09 View Post
Don't forget your oil pan and pickup tube from your car also.



This is true but you can use your stock MAF and injectors and the car will run fine. Just mentioned it because when people hear they have to get their car tuned it seems to scare people away from doing the swap.
npi heads use around 10° more ignition advance than PI, so using the stock npi tune with a PI motor will lead to pinging, and will be down on power.

-Matt
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 02:07 AM
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That's interesting because my car runs good without a tune.

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draetech09 View Post
That's interesting because my car runs good without a tune.
Not really...
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97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
npi heads use around 10° more ignition advance than PI, so using the stock npi tune with a PI motor will lead to pinging, and will be down on power.
This is true; and it wants a bit more fuel on top end, comparing the tunes I bought.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 04:30 PM
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I always speak on experience I've had. It's a lot more info for these swaps in Mustang forums and I read there also before doing it. Some said it will be fine but don't be hard on it in upper rpms. Some said it's fine with stock PI cams but recommended using 93 octane and some suggested getting it tuned. I took a shot in the dark and tried it un-tuned and it ran just fine with putting maybe 600 miles or so in it. If it would have blown up then it would be a $600 lesson plus time and work doing it again which I was fine with. I ran out of time working on the car before I moved to Anchorage. I'm not saying it runs it best without a tune but it's not a slouch either. I knew I wouldn't be getting the most potential from it until I put my 80mm MAF on and tuned it but it will come plus more.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 08:55 PM
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I had a few and mine never pinged even on regular gas but they were for sure under powered and tuning them, even to stock standards is big improvement over unturned but until you do get it tuned . I would run premium just to be safe, I always did. Only reason I knew it didn't ping on regular is what was left in the tank after the swap and test driving it and buttoning it all up..
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94badbird View Post
I had a few and mine never pinged even on regular gas but they were for sure under powered and tuning them, even to stock standards is big improvement over unturned but until you do get it tuned . I would run premium just to be safe, I always did. Only reason I knew it didn't ping on regular is what was left in the tank after the swap and test driving it and buttoning it all up..
A PI motor doesn't need premium. Only if you get it tuned for Premium is it worthwhile. It's a low compression motor, runs fine on 87 with a good tune.

If you don't tune it, and run it off a bone stock MN-12 ECU, it's going to run poorly. By running poorly, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to ping a lot, or backfire, etc, but it's going to at the very least leave a lot on the table unused, and if you're not going to bother to tune it, why put a better motor between the fenders in the first place?

A tune isn't horribly expensive, and not that complicated for the good tuners to get a bone stock motor running properly in your car. You can get an SCT for cheap on Ebay, a tune is $100. It's well worth it, just do it. All that effort just to run at 3/4 or 2/3 of the potential? No thanks.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 08:28 PM
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Do anyone know what the ignition advance is for a 96-98 Mustang GT is? Just curious because it makes 20 more horsepower. Can't imagine it's too much different than an MN12.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 08:25 PM
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My question is will the engine for under the hood?
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 08:26 PM
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"Fit" under the hood
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 08:36 PM
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Yes, it fits fine but on 94-95s it helps to remove the hood liner

-Matt
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
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Do anyone know what the ignition advance is for a 96-98 Mustang GT is? Just curious because it makes 20 more horsepower. Can't imagine it's too much different than an MN12.
Probably more to do with better exhaust than the tune

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 04:45 AM
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Advance is a rough question; I'd have to data log it, as it's a sum of three tables and some calculations.

THe Tbirds and Cougars were detuned from the mustangs.

The exhaust is better on the mustangs. But 2.5" true duals with no cats are better.

The butt dyno says I picked up ~30hp with PI intake, exhaust, and tune.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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