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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Question Engine vibration

The real question is how much is "normal?"
96 Cougar 4.6 stock ~80K miles
When turning the wheel while stopped the car vibrates especially when cold. My mechanic stated it's normal for the rack Ford used in that era. The orifice were too small and it puts strain on the pump at low RPMs. That's fine, but the vibration is annoying. It shows up other times also, like when the load changes on the engine. ie: A/C kicks on, fans go high, etc.
Do I simply need to replace my motor and tranny mounts? Or is there something else going on here? Thanks.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 07:49 AM
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How about a power steering fluid flush?

My engine used to bog when the cooling fan kicked in. I put up with it for a while until it started overheating last summer. Since I replaced the cooling fan and shroud assembly, RPMs still go down a little when the cooling fan turns on, but not acting like it wants to stall like before.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 01:04 PM
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You can see if the engine mounts are worn by lifting up the hood and with someone standing next to the car (not in front), you shift the car from D into park and give it a little gas to move forward.
a worn or blown engine mount will have it lift up on the pass side as the due to the torque of the engine before the metal "cage" of the mount catches the top piece.

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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My parents visited today and I drafted my dad to check out the engine movement. We power braked it in the street and the motor shifts on the drivers side quite a bit. Looks like I gotta replace them mounts. Are the ANCHOR mounts at Rockauto good? Also, I'm looking through the forum for some info, if ya'll can point me to some info on how to replace these I'd appreciate it.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 09:16 PM
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I added a chain across them, to prevent further problems.

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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Do you have a pic of the chain you added?
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Found this write up: Changing engine mounts, need advice and methods please....

My mechanic quoted $375 in labor to install them. It looks like Super Coupe performance is the only source for solid ones anymore.
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 11:00 PM
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I'm having very similar symptoms. When the engine load changes (lights, AC, steering) does your rpm drop a small amount? I have basically checked everything there is to check for rough idle and I can't find anything. Fuel pressure good, coils, plugs, and wires all good, no vacuum leaks, and several other items. I don't know where else to look.

The only thing I have that might be different from your case is that if I roll both windows up or down at the same time I also get a very slight rpm drop and a significant increase in vibration. My alternator puts out the correct voltage, but I haven't checked current output yet.

I'm also concerned by the fact that the mounts on rockauto don't list left or right, even though the OEM ones do. I could only find one side OEM still being sold on ebay.

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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 06:51 AM
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From the looks of it, changing the mounts out must be an awful job. TBH I haven't read up on it, but I don't see how you can even access the bolts.

When I was in the middle of my transmission swap I thought about replacing them. But even with the transmission and exhaust out I didn't want to try and tackle them. Fortunately they seem fine still. It's almost like the engine needs to come out, or at least lifted a few inches to get to them.

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V22 View Post
I'm having very similar symptoms. When the engine load changes (lights, AC, steering) does your rpm drop a small amount? I have basically checked everything there is to check for rough idle and I can't find anything. Fuel pressure good, coils, plugs, and wires all good, no vacuum leaks, and several other items. I don't know where else to look.

The only thing I have that might be different from your case is that if I roll both windows up or down at the same time I also get a very slight rpm drop and a significant increase in vibration. My alternator puts out the correct voltage, but I haven't checked current output yet.

I'm also concerned by the fact that the mounts on rockauto don't list left or right, even though the OEM ones do. I could only find one side OEM still being sold on ebay.
From what I can tell the mounts are the same side to side. I would recommend super coupe performance for the mounts, they are solid rubber. All the ones on RockAuto are hydraulic and will wear out early. Wish I realized that when I but mine a while back.

For the engine load/ vibration issue. I found most of it was caused by a old battery. The alternator can only adapt to current changes so fast, a good battery can compensate, mine was weak, but would still start fine.

Here's how to check it out: With a voltmeter attached to + / - of the battery set to read DC volts. you should have about 12.5v. Position the voltmeter so you can see it from the drivers seat. Watch the Voltage while you start the car, it should drop no more than 1.5v; if the voltmeter drops to below 11v you have a dead cell. Once the car starts you should read about 14.4v; sometimes you need to bring the RPMs up a little to get to 14.4v.
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Got my motor mounts & stuff from SCP. I have a question, these should be solid rubber motor mounts. When I shake them I hear fluid sloshing. Should there be fluid in a solid rubber mount?

Last edited by Kidd-7; 01-08-2019 at 10:24 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:13 PM
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Sounds like you got what I've read referred to as a juice box.

Last edited by Jim3inVirginia; 01-07-2019 at 06:20 PM. Reason: correction
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Props to Bill. I emailed him as soon as I opened them, he was closed for the day, but did reply when he got in the next day. He sent me out a set that he verified had no fluid in them. I got those today, so starting tomorrow after work the motor mounts are getting replaced.
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 05:37 PM
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yea I have the same thing. turning the steering wheel will make he engine bog and almost die out. AC doesn't work on my engine I actually disconnected it so that's not an issue. Im pretty sure its your engine ECU that controls the engine rpm when the accessories are being used. You can try increasing the idle rpm a small amount and maybe that will help

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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
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yea I have the same thing. turning the steering wheel will make he engine bog and almost die out. AC doesn't work on my engine I actually disconnected it so that's not an issue. Im pretty sure its your engine ECU that controls the engine rpm when the accessories are being used. You can try increasing the idle rpm a small amount and maybe that will help

How do you increase the idle RPM ?
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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 08:13 AM
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How do you increase the idle RPM ?
Technically, you can't. Or at least not without resorting to unapproved methods.

The best you can do is clean the throttle body and butterfly valve, so there is no carbon buildup restricting airflow thru the TB at idle. That might gain you 50-100 RPM and get it back to where it should be.

Al
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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I believe my case is because of the motor mounts, I will report back once they are replaced this weekend. Starting the job tonight ~3:00.
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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:40 PM
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It's not as bad as you think; IIRC, the forward bolt is the one that's a bitch, so take it out first.

The other two are fairly accessible, way easier than the starter bolts.

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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Need some guidance. I've removed 6 bolts on the exhaust 4 at the manifolds and 2 on the u clamp after the resonator. How do I remove the exhaust? It seems like I need to slide it forward to undo it from the back section then slide it back to remove it from the hangers. I was pulling on it but it wasn't budging. It was late and i lost the light so i came in. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.
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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
Technically, you can't. Or at least not without resorting to unapproved methods.

The best you can do is clean the throttle body and butterfly valve, so there is no carbon buildup restricting airflow thru the TB at idle. That might gain you 50-100 RPM and get it back to where it should be.

Al
I know, I was being sarcastic. Also the IAC could be at fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd-7 View Post
Need some guidance. I've removed 6 bolts on the exhaust 4 at the manifolds and 2 on the u clamp after the resonator. How do I remove the exhaust? It seems like I need to slide it forward to undo it from the back section then slide it back to remove it from the hangers. I was pulling on it but it wasn't budging. It was late and i lost the light so i came in. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.
Helps to lower the transmission X-member, after you support it .. don't just unbolt it. I normally remove the back half of the exhaust first though, it might need to come out before you attempt the forward half.
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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 09:45 PM
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From the looks of it, changing the mounts out must be an awful job. TBH I haven't read up on it, but I don't see how you can even access the bolts.

When I was in the middle of my transmission swap I thought about replacing them. But even with the transmission and exhaust out I didn't want to try and tackle them. Fortunately they seem fine still. It's almost like the engine needs to come out, or at least lifted a few inches to get to them.
It's not that hard. You can do it with the engine in the car (just need a way to support the weight of the engine while you remove it (hoist from the top or tall jack from the bottom). <1 hr the first time. You can also make your own rubber engine mounts with hockey pucks, some fender washers, and two good grade 8 bolts. You should have hockey pucks in upstate NY.

$375 is a bit much even with Bay Area CA labor rates.
Unless things are rusted solid, they are fucking with you in upstate NY.
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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Hey, my mounts are coming in on Monday, wait for me

Did you need to remove the exhaust? The bolts look (marginally) accessible, besides the passenger side which looks like the starter needs to be removed at the least.

I just sprayed some penetrant on the bolts in anticipation of the wonderful experience. The driver side looks okay, but the passenger side:
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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know how you say it's not that hard. I can't see some of these bolts much less reach them. How the F do I get to them and what needs to come out? This is a crazy job. Maybe just drop the cross member, would that alter the alignment? Also, how in the world do you get the tranny cross member out? Or even get the front exhaust out, I got it all disconnected, but can't slide the hangers out from near the tranny mount. Plus this absolutely sucks in the driveway while it's chilly.
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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hey, my mounts are coming in on Monday, wait for me

Did you need to remove the exhaust? The bolts look (marginally) accessible, besides the passenger side which looks like the starter needs to be removed at the least.

I just sprayed some penetrant on the bolts in anticipation of the wonderful experience. The driver side looks okay, but the passenger side:
The pass side bolts were a little easier, both from underneath. The one is at a goofy angel and you need a long extension. The top one on the drivers side was a royal pain. Needed a u-joint be careful cuz the brake lines are right there.
If you have better luck please share.
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:12 PM
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A few notes:

You always need u-joints. Sometimes Two.

Long Extensions, and working thru holes in the fenderwell are techniques to consider.

A socket, 1/2" ujoint and two 2' long 1/2" extensions lets you hit the top two bolts on a 4r70w with an impact wrench, lol.
Those are otherwise easier with a wrench.

Some jobs can only be done with one hand; there are right hand jobs and left hand jobs.
If something is crazy tough, switch positions and hands, and see if it helps.
Yes, this sounds bad.
The oil filter is a right hand job, as an example. On my Contour, it's a left hand job. (You think our filter is stupid, look at one of these, lol)

I have found on certain jobs, a Wrench worked better than a socket. O2 sensors, for one.

Good luck!

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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
It's not that hard. You can do it with the engine in the car (just need a way to support the weight of the engine while you remove it (hoist from the top or tall jack from the bottom). <1 hr the first time.
Is your experience from doing them on a 5.0? Don't forget the 4.6 is an oversized pig of an engine... The lack of room scared me away. I didn't see it being an easy job without pulling the exhaust manifolds, or dropping the entire engine sub frame.

I do like the hockey puck idea. Have heard of that before.

When I dig in and do my PI intake swap, I'm going to reevaluate replacing them. Fortunately they seem to be in fine shape at the moment.

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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 10:25 AM
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Scott, let me know if you want me to get a price from Rob's Tire and Auto on doing this job. He knows every trick for working on these cars. With how tight the engine fits in there, this falls under "leave it to the pros" job, IMO.

Send me a text if you want me to check.

Al

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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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I had to tighten up the exhaust today. I figured out what I was doing wrong with trying remove the exhaust. There is a black bracket bolted to the tranny that the exhaust hangers slide into. We could have unbolted that bracket to release the exhaust. Hope that helps someone.
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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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This is how I got to the 1 bolt on the passenger side. 3/8 extensions worked better, the 1/2in extensions were too large a diameter to get the correct angle on the nut. There's not a lot of room between the cat & the body.
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 06:33 PM
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I had good luck using a Sunex SUN215MD on the outboard exhaust manifold to Y-pipe nuts. Swivel is in the socket which gives better leverage within less space.
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