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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Question What to do? Opinions more than welcome.

I have 3 options in front of me.

I am redoing my bird. Saleen spoiler, Cobra R hood, new headlights, fix all dings and all minor body work, and a new paint job.

I also want to beef up my car. I don't like losing to my friends GTP....not even a little bit. lol

I have been shopping around, and here is what I am looking at for engine options:

1) 98 GT Motor (complete engine) $850 +ship

2) 99 GT Motor (complete engine) PI heads, etc. $1750+ship

3) PI headswap, intake manifold swap, etc on current engine $???? (found complete PI headswap package for $1200, kind of salty, I think...

Now, do I go with the 98 GT motor and slightly mod it, and then supercharge it?

Or,

go with the 99, drop it in, play around until I get bored smoking my friends GTP, buy a blower and show my buddy with a mystic Cobra what real Ford power is?

Or,

Build my engine up (less than 80k mi.) , throw a blower on it, and see what happens?

Also, am I leaving out another viable option that is in the same price range as what I am talking about here?

THNX
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 08:34 PM
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Talking What to do....Here goes...

Well, what's the most cost efficient.....? Here are a few
thoughts:

1) Don't buy a non PI engine

2) Don't buy a set of PI heads unless you can
find a complete set REALLY cheap like $500.00

3) If you are serious about supercharging, buy a setup
now, put it on your engine, beat it to death.

4) While you're doing that, find a decent PI engine
and build it for reliabilty (at least forged pistons
and rods).

5) When you blow up your current engine, pull the SC off,
put it on your builder, and install.

Good luck...I'm sure there'll be plenty of other alternative
suggestions posted that you might want to consider as well.

PS - Smoking your buddy's GTP isn't going to be as easy
as you might think. My son has a somewhat modded one and it
gives me serious fits! Thay are not slow, and they respond
REAL well to (what we'd call) relatively minor mods.

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"It's ALL about air flow...eveything else...is tuning..."

Last edited by MagerThom; 07-16-2002 at 09:02 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 09:18 PM
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definetly stay away from any pre-99 4.6 without PI heads, pretty much a waste of time and money.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Mager

If that's not a good idea (Slapping a SC on it and beating it while building a PI motor)



....I don't know what is.


THNX
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by J-Rob
definetly stay away from any pre-99 4.6 without PI heads, pretty much a waste of time and money.
And why do you say that? You have any facts on that? Any flow numbers for heads? Did you know that ported stock heads will flow more than PI heads? Did you know that 96-98 will directly swap in PI cams and that's where most of the gain was with PIs?
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by seabass


And why do you say that? You have any facts on that? Any flow numbers for heads? Did you know that ported stock heads will flow more than PI heads? Did you know that 96-98 will directly swap in PI cams and that's where most of the gain was with PIs?
I know that ported stock heads will flow better than the PI's and that the PI cams are a big part of the power gain, but it doesnt seem worth it to me to invest the time and money to swap an non PI engine as well as having the headwork done when you could simply put in about the same work to a PI engine and yield better results. The stronger 99+ shortblock would also be beneficial if hes planning on running a blower.

This is all assuming that he just wants to swap a complete motor, if he wants to build a motor up then hes going to tear the internals apart anyway and it might be a more cost efficient choice to P&P the stock heads, but still, P&P'ed PI heads would be a much better choice IMHO.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:01 PM
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A P&P set of stock heads will flow better than a set of PI heads, and you can put the PI cams in the stock heads, right? What about if you spent a bit of extra money, and extra time to have a set of PI heads P&P? Then which would give more power? P&P stockers withy PI cams? Or P&P PI heads?

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:18 PM
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A set of P&P non PI heads....

will not flow anywhere close to a set of stock PI heads. I can't
speak from personal experience with respect to our PI heads, but I
can with respect to P&P GTP heads....P&P GTP heads leads to a significant reduction in knock retard, no surprise as at least some potential hot spots are eliminated. If you're planning on adding
a set of PI heads to an SC build up, a light P&Ping would not be a bad thing and is significantly less expensive than major flow work.

Hope this helps,

Mager Thom
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:20 PM
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Re: A set of P&P non PI heads....

Quote:
Originally posted by MagerThom
A set of P&P non PI heads.... will not flow anywhere close to a set of stock PI heads.
not true

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:24 PM
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Fine ... please, if not please correct..n/m

n/m

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:31 PM
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im just saying, it came straight from the man himself that it was quite possible to get better flow numbers from ported non PI heads than stock PI heads.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:40 PM
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Well, I'm sure not going to argue with...

"the man"....I guess my question is one of degree and expense.

When P&P is referred to - are we meaning a Fox Lake multi-thousand
dollar set of majorly worked flow benched masterpieces or are
we talking a light clean up and possible light relieving where
necessary?

It seems to me that if you aren't willing to spend really heavy
dollars on headwork a "lightly" P&P'd set of PI heads would
be a good way to go in an SC situation....

Lets hear more...

Mager Thom
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:42 PM
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Going with J-Rob on this one too, it's been said by the best that you can flow better with a set of non-PI's that are ported.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:49 PM
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Re: Well, I'm sure not going to argue with...

Quote:
Originally posted by MagerThom
"the man"....I guess my question is one of degree and expense.

When P&P is referred to - are we meaning a Fox Lake multi-thousand
dollar set of majorly worked flow benched masterpieces or are
we talking a light clean up and possible light relieving where
necessary?

It seems to me that if you aren't willing to spend really heavy
dollars on headwork a "lightly" P&P'd set of PI heads would
be a good way to go in an SC situation....

Lets hear more...
this is something i am interested in as well. im sure the port work he had done was extensive, i cant imagine him doing anything mildly. it would be good news though to know that you could get similiar flow numbers without dropping a couple grand on the bench work.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 02:35 PM
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Talking I have no doubt that a set

of Fox Lake masterpieces are the ultimate way to go or
"the Man", Seabass, and others wouldn't be spending the
heavy dollars for their product.

It's all a matter of what each of us want and can afford
(or are willing to spend). Diminishing returns, with
respect to the "Dollars vs Power" equation, set in
differently for all of us.

I would very much like to see a comparison between a set
of high end Fox Lake massaged heads with respect to flow
and potential power gains vs a "cleaned up" set of PI's -
if for no other reason, than to see what I'd be missing.

My apologies if I was misleading in my earlier post.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 04:35 PM
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So....Would it then be worth it to "P and P" a set of stock heads if all I'm going to do in the near future is add a chip, larger MAF, and TB? Just curious.

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 04:51 PM
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Talking I'm goig to GUESS that......

Quote:
Originally posted by 17Mark71
So....Would it then be worth it to "P and P" a set of stock heads if all I'm going to do in the near future is add a chip, larger MAF, and TB? Just curious.
you may pick up in the neighborhood of 55rwhp with your mod
list and P&P'd heads w/o a cam change. If I'm anywhere in the
ball park, and I may well be wrong, is the cost worth it? That
would be for you to decide.

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