Transformation of my Bird, good or bad? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2003, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Transformation of my Bird, good or bad?

Ok So here is the thing I have been doing a lot of research and asking a lot of questions. Thank you everyone who has helped/responded especially JL... My question is if this is a workable idea. I left my scratch pad at home, so I will edit this tomorrow, however this is everything that I have so far. If you see something on the list that shouldn't be or something that isn't there but should be PLEASE let me know. I am going to start by purchasing the engine here in the next month and go from there.

Engine, wiring harness, computer from a '94 Mark VIII 58k miles 170pr compression -- 875

MMC Driveshaft - 460

3.73 Tracloc pumpkin --- 373ish (plus the speedo change thing)

MAF/Intake --- 80mm LMAF and TB?

Chip - will need flip chip style, don't know who I am gettin from yet, will depend on cost.

Lower springs - Custom ones being GPed right now

New shocks and struts - once again don't know where or kind...

Bushings replacement in suspension from MN12performance

Addco stabilization kit

Kooks headers larger diameter with ceramic coating and 4 valve flange- 730

True dual Exhaust -- Spintech probable 600 true dual 2.25"

(possible) P&P Heads - ??

A-Pillar -- MN12performance Tranny temp gauge, EGT gauge... Possible W&S Infocenter.

Ok I think that is it... I will update tonight or tomorrow.... What do you guys think? Am I missing anything? I will be getting the engine soon, as in probably the next week or so and then the rest slowly...

Sam

Last edited by slayer; 07-14-2003 at 12:16 PM.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2003, 07:25 PM
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I didn't see a MK 8 torque converter listed. Unless you allready run one

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanx for the response, I have a Hellfire 2400 stall TC and a recently rebuilt tranny, jmodded to 300 hp I think... It was a few months ago...

Sam
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 01:36 PM
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You'll be making over 300 hp with a dohc with mods. Might want to think about j-modding more.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by slayer
A-Pillar -- MN12performance What gauges should I get?


Sam

if you wanna race it you might wanna consider getting a tachometer mounted. our stock ones suck. you should definitely get an air fuel ratio gauge. they can be very helpful at times.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 03:00 PM
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I would not get an A/F ratio gauge, they are practically worthless. you won't see that your lean until it's too late. You want a EGT sensor, you will be able to tell how lean/rich you are from it and it will do a better job. I would also get a trans temp gauge.

You may want to wait for the W&S Infocenter...it's coming this summer. Then I would just get a tach and a n2o pressure gauge




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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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EGT sensor? What exactly is this? What does it monitor? I was figuring on a tranny temp gauage. What would happen if I din't remod the tranny? The tranny just give out out over time? Why would I get a tach? it is an auto, so I don't really need to know where it shifts do I? I mean with a chip I will be able to say where I want it to shift at, so I don't need to know exactly to the 100 where it is shifting at, do I?

What is the W&S Infocenter? I don't plan on getting N20 for a long time, at least until I rebuild the engine, and I am getting the low mile engine, with the hope that I won't have to rebuild for a few years...

The MAF/Intake is what I need to know. I don't know what works best with the DOHC engine...

Thanx for the replies so far...

Sam
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 02:58 AM
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EGT - Exhaust Gas Temperature. I'm not sure how it'd help more than and air fuel gauge. The tach might not be necessary you don't really need to know accurately unless you are pushing your rpm to the max it can go without breaking something. The W&S Infocenter is something designed by Dr. Frankencougie, or Scott as he's now known, and his team. It monitors pretty much anything you can think of that the EEC monitors. Maybe he'll see this and list it or you could do a search. As for the MAF and intake. I'd say 80mm would be good. I'd go 80mm LMAF with 3 1/3 inch intake tube. Not sure what the size is for the TB but you might consider upgrading that to 75mm if it's not already.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 10:16 PM
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You can tell a lot about the combustion cycle from the EGT. Ideally, no matter what speed the engine is spinning at, the ratio of gas to air should be the same. You will burn more fuel, but the gas should exit at the same temperature because the ratios stayed the same. But, if you start to see a sudden rise in the temp, you are on the lean side. I can't remember what an ideal temperature for the exhaust is, but if it starts getting hot, chances are you are lean. The temperature will continue to climb until detonation happens.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 02:33 AM
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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. I'll have to look into one of those or a wide band o2 sensor I've been thinking about. By the way I really like your cougar.
-Thomas

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 09:05 AM
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I just wish I could remember those temps for the exhaust. I know for a fact though that leaner engines run hotter. My friend has a 67 Chevelle 396 SS (no EGT gauge) that runs with a good mixture in Colorado Springs. When we take it to Denver (5,200 feet as opposed to 7,000) you can see that the water temp is definately higher than when we drive in the Springs. The car doesn't knock or ping though, but it's running hotter from the leaner mix.

The altitude factors in Colorado Springs are crazy...average atmospheric pressure here is 11.4 psi vs 14.7 at sea level. On the dyno we use, cars typically put out 27% less power than they do at sea level! I'm thankful for EFI cause it was tricky getting the primaries and secondaires to work well together on that 396 right at altitude.

Thanks for the compliment on the Cougar.

Pete

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3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
That Run, Corrected for Standard Day
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
Not sure what the size is for the TB but you might consider upgrading that to 75mm if it's not already.
Stock Mark VIII throttle body is dual 57 mm (I think). The 93 - 96 Mark VIII has a progressive opening style (one butterfly opens slightly before the second butterfly opens) and mounts below the intake at the back. The 97 - 98 Marks have the same style throttle body as the Cobra DOHC and the butterflies open at the same time as they are on the same shaft. I’m pretty sure the 97 – 98 Mark VIII are also dual 57 mm (I know the Cobra ones are).

Just thought I’d pass that along.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thanx for the info on the TB. What would be a good upgrade from the stock ones? or are they good as is?

Bigpete -- What dyno do you use? I will be looking for a quality dyno and tuner once I get everything installed...
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 12:48 PM
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It depends on what intake you are going to go with.

93 - 96: I don't think there is an upgrade. It looks more oval than the Cobra TB and it mounts low and has the funky hose/tube that comes up and follows the passenger valve cover to the MAF.

96 – 97 uses a different intake completely and you could probably upgrade to the larger Cobra TB’s. But the IAC location is different between the Cobra and the MAF, so I think aftermarket might be a problem there. And there are a lot of other issues with the 97 – 98 intake like the IMRC’s, etc.

Or you could just build you own custom intake from scratch and build what you want.

Hey, it’s only money and time. LOL.

Check this post on what I found a little while ago: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...ghlight=intake

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 01:50 PM
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Those mods won't put you above 300 HP, in my opinion the Mark VIII's were very overrated fromt he factory, either that or MN-12/FN-10's have the most parasitic driveline ever created. With my chip and everything else I have done I put down 230 at the wheels, factory said 280 crank. I was at 215 with everything but the chip, that gives you a 23% loss!

Besides that, the j-mod levels say 300 + for that last one, there is no other level of the j-mod, at least not the shift kit portion, I suppose there is the bullet proof tranny part.

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-14-2003, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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The engine is a '94 so it will come with that intake. From reading all those threads and the threads posted in the threads and then the thread posted in those, I have come to the conclusion the stock intake is staying because it is a PITA to change. Stock TB's, bigger MAF though.

4 Cam -- Those aren't terribly pmressive numbers are they? That is what I am looking at? I am still going through the swap I think, too much time invested now. What do you think the headers and PnP heads would do to your HP numbers?

94 Daily driven, thanx for sharing that info. Hadn't even thought to do a search yet on that.

Now a computer question. Since I am reusing the Mark Computer I won't NEED a chip right away will I ? The reason I ask is because I want to have the car tuned by someone with the chip like fordchip, but won't have everything ready for them whene they come to Denver. If I can get this running without the chip I will be purchasing the engine in the next 2 days and hopefully having the swap done by mid Aug.

Thanx.

Sam

As a side note if what Bigpete says is true and we lose 27% of power because of the altitude and then another 23% because of the parisitic drivetrain, boy would I love to drive a bird at sea level instead of all the way up here...
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