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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2003, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Intake replacement questions (I searched)

I think my intake finally bit the dust but I'm not sure. I haven't been able to check it out good in the daylight yet but, unless it's the hose that runs from the water pump through the valley that Rolling Thunder mentioned in another thread then it's probably the intake.

I checked with my local Ford dealer this afternoon and they said that it's 4 months out of the recall/campaign/whatever else they call fixing their design flaws. I called Ford to see if they'd do anything since it's only 4 months out and the car only has 53k miles on it but they essentially told me that I'm SOL. I asked the extremely polite young lady that I spoke to to pass along the a message to "the powers that be" that I didn't think that refusing to fix an item that they basically admitted was a design flaw by the act of issueing the recall to begin with was a good business decision. I also asked her to pass along the message that alienating a long-time loyal Ford owner who is seriously considering buying a '05 Mustang GT when they come out in such a way was a good way to build brand loyalty. Anyway, enough of that.

The symptoms are...

1: Loss of coolant. Not substantial yet but about a gallon over the course of 3-4 days. Yes, I'm using a 50/50 mix and I check it/fill it daily for those who are about to ask.

2: NO sign of a leak on the ground at all. There is a small trail of dampness/corrosion from a sensor to the passenger side of the alternator but it isn't significant enough to match the amount of coolant loss.

3: The missing coolant isn't going into the oil pan and the car doesn't exhibit any signs of burning it off such as what a blown head gasket would show.


I searched a bit and I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that it is indeed my intake manifold that is leaking. Just in case it is the intake manifold, I need to know which tools are required for the intake swap because 99.999% of my tools are at work so I really need to know what to bring home with me to do the job. I know I will need an in/lbs torque wrench. If the problem is indeed my intake, I'm more than willing to do a complete technical article, including pictures of how to do the swap to benefit everyone else here.

Warped (not twisted!)

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2003, 06:58 PM
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you could try attaching a paper towel, etc to something like a looong screwdriver and wipe the valley of the block a little -look and see if the towel gets wet or not. its about the only way to see if its a hose/intake issue w/o removing the intake manifold.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2003, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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That's a great idea Silver95Bird. I'll give that a try this weekend. Thanks!

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-10-2003, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warped
I think my intake finally bit the dust but I'm not sure. I haven't been able to check it out good in the daylight yet but, unless it's the hose that runs from the water pump through the valley that Rolling Thunder mentioned in another thread then it's probably the intake.

I searched a bit and I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that it is indeed my intake manifold that is leaking. Just in case it is the intake manifold, I need to know which tools are required for the intake swap because 99.999% of my tools are at work so I really need to know what to bring home with me to do the job. I know I will need an in/lbs torque wrench. If the problem is indeed my intake, I'm more than willing to do a complete technical article, including pictures of how to do the swap to benefit everyone else here.
The most likely place for the intake to crack is right behind the alternator, but you probably knew that. Mine leaked from the fitting as shown in the pic, but you can see coolant residue on the manifold itself. Replacing the intake is a snap, especially if you've done it before. Read my headswap article on my website (link below) and that will give you an idea. Tools you might not have are fuel line disconnectors.




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2013 Ford Taurus SHO (TUXESHO) Tuxedo Black Bone stock for now.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-11-2003, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Embalmer


The most likely place for the intake to crack is right behind the alternator, but you probably knew that. Mine leaked from the fitting as shown in the pic, but you can see coolant residue on the manifold itself. Replacing the intake is a snap, especially if you've done it before. Read my headswap article on my website (link below) and that will give you an idea. Tools you might not have are fuel line disconnectors.
That is exactly the fitting that has what I call a happy trail of leakage leading from it. Today after I got home from work I used a small telescopic mirror to try to see where the coolant that I could now (with a LED penlight and the car parked facing the sun) puddled in the valley was coming from but the engine was still hot so it kept fogging the mirror up.
I was able to see that the 5/8 or maybe 3/4 rubber hose that passes under the valley had evidence of either leakage or the manifold above it leaking onto it.

Do you have a picture of the fuel line disconnect tool Jim? I can get one from the Snap-On or Mac guy that visit our shop but I want to make sure I get the right one. I assume that if I have to change the hose that runs under the upper intake that I'll have to remove the intake and alternator in order to get to both ends of it. If I do, I'm going to just go ahead and update the intake. I got a response from Dan Newman today but got home too late to return his call. His prices are just awesome so I'm probably going to do both the hose and the intake just to be safe.

Before I forget, other than the fuel line tool, are there any other specialty tools I will need to do the job? Either way, I'm going to photograph the entire process and write up a tech article. Thanks for all of your help!

Warped (not twisted!)

"Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent." - Richard Rahl


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warped


That is exactly the fitting that has what I call a happy trail of leakage leading from it. Today after I got home from work I used a small telescopic mirror to try to see where the coolant that I could now (with a LED penlight and the car parked facing the sun) puddled in the valley was coming from but the engine was still hot so it kept fogging the mirror up.
I was able to see that the 5/8 or maybe 3/4 rubber hose that passes under the valley had evidence of either leakage or the manifold above it leaking onto it.

Do you have a picture of the fuel line disconnect tool Jim? I can get one from the Snap-On or Mac guy that visit our shop but I want to make sure I get the right one. I assume that if I have to change the hose that runs under the upper intake that I'll have to remove the intake and alternator in order to get to both ends of it. If I do, I'm going to just go ahead and update the intake. I got a response from Dan Newman today but got home too late to return his call. His prices are just awesome so I'm probably going to do both the hose and the intake just to be safe.

Before I forget, other than the fuel line tool, are there any other specialty tools I will need to do the job? Either way, I'm going to photograph the entire process and write up a tech article. Thanks for all of your help!
If it's just leaking around the fitting, try unplugging the wiring, removing the sensor, put new Teflon tape on the threads and replace it. It may be leaking past the threads, but I doubt it. It's probably leaking past the fitting.

Let me say I doubt the hose in the valley is the culprit. Have you had the system pressure tested? That might prove useful. You should see or hear bubbling.

The fuel line disconnect tools are really just plastic discs of different color and diameter that have a slit in them so they can slip over the fuel lines. I got mine at Autozone in a pack of 5 for $10. You will need 2 different sizes. You just push them into the fitting, and pull the coupling apart. Simple if you've done it before.
If you plan on replacing the hose in the valley - all you need is a few inches of flexible heater hose - the rest is pre-bent hardline that I seriously doubt is leaking. Just get some locally and cut it to length. Thats what I did.

I don't think you need to remove the alternator at all to remove the intake, or the hose below it. This picture might help you visualize:




Happy to help more if I can.

P.S. - You're not in the Navy, are you?

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Last edited by Embalmer; 12-12-2003 at 12:13 AM.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Is there a plastic or sheet metal pan that goes in the valley underneath the upper intake Jim? I don't think that the sensor is where the major part of my leak is coming from. I haven't been able to get my hands on a pressure tester yet. I'm not sure if the one that one of my co-workers has at work would have the proper adapter to fit my car. From what I could see today, the hose that passes through the valley has a stain that looks like calcium on it. I thought that if the sensor or the area around it was leaking that coolant would be spraying all over the front of the engine instead of down into the valley or valley pan. Coolant would have to run uphill from the sensor to drip on the spot where the drip/leak mark is on the rubber hose.

Speaking of the rubber hose... I heard that it makes a 90* turn at the back of the engine and was a molded hose. Is that correct? If not, I'll just get one locally. I know I'm going to need intake gaskets, a gasket for the throttle body and so forth. Is there anything else I should replace while it's apart? Will teflon tape suffice for sealing the injectors in the new manifold?

Based on the tool you described for removing the injector rails, it sounds to me like it just pushes a "C" type clip out with a "C" shaped disk. Is that about right?

I'm not in the Navy. I was born and raised here (HELP ME!!!) Thanks again for all of the help.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Embalmer
If it's just leaking around the fitting, try unplugging the wiring, removing the sensor, put new Teflon tape on the threads and replace it. It may be leaking past the threads, but I doubt it. It's probably leaking past the fitting.

Let me say I doubt the hose in the valley is the culprit. Have you had the system pressure tested? That might prove useful. You should see or hear bubbling.

I agree I doubt it's leaking past the threads. If it's leaking past that fitting at all it should be visible after a short trip driving then popping the hood and inspecting... If it's wet, bingo! there's your problem. If it's bone dry I'd check the hose down low.

Why doubt the heater hose? I've got an engine sitting in my garage that was pulled out due to that very problem... except that I didnt realize what it was at the time. I thought it blew a HG or cracked a head. Either way, it has the F1AE heads on it (which were supposedly discontinued over a year before this engine was produced?) and those will be replaced with a set of 96-98 heads among other goodies up my sleeve... but that's another post.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 07:44 AM
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When my intake cracked, it was at the fitting at the passenger side rear of the intake that goes to the heater core. Even if your water pump hose (running uner the intake) is fine, I would replace it as it is now 7 years old.
I can sympathize with your recall problem, my car was a month past the build date for the recall campain. Ford wouldn't cover it. The woman who works the service department counter felt so bad for me that she knocked $75 off of the repair bill for me. I agree, Ford doesn't seem to care about building brand loyalty. I'm no longer brand loyal after my intake incident.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warped
Is there a plastic or sheet metal pan that goes in the valley underneath the upper intake Jim? I don't think that the sensor is where the major part of my leak is coming from. I haven't been able to get my hands on a pressure tester yet. I'm not sure if the one that one of my co-workers has at work would have the proper adapter to fit my car. From what I could see today, the hose that passes through the valley has a stain that looks like calcium on it. I thought that if the sensor or the area around it was leaking that coolant would be spraying all over the front of the engine instead of down into the valley or valley pan. Coolant would have to run uphill from the sensor to drip on the spot where the drip/leak mark is on the rubber hose.

Speaking of the rubber hose... I heard that it makes a 90* turn at the back of the engine and was a molded hose. Is that correct? If not, I'll just get one locally. I know I'm going to need intake gaskets, a gasket for the throttle body and so forth. Is there anything else I should replace while it's apart? Will teflon tape suffice for sealing the injectors in the new manifold?

Based on the tool you described for removing the injector rails, it sounds to me like it just pushes a "C" type clip out with a "C" shaped disk. Is that about right?

I'm not in the Navy. I was born and raised here (HELP ME!!!) Thanks again for all of the help.
There is nothing that runs under the intake in the valley except the 3 inches of hose going backward from the water pump then into the hardline which twists around behind the passenger side head. When I said I doubted the hose was leaking - I meant this hard line which is metal. The 3 inches of heater hose from the back of the water pump to the hardline may well be leaking. For your sake I hope that's all it is.

My guess is the manifold is leaking from the crossover right behind the alternator, then dripping down into the "V" which is why it looks wet down there. Even if you end up replacing the intake, you won't need a throttle body gasket because you just remove the upper intake "4.6L OHC" and the TB as a unit. No need to seperate them. You don't need tape for the injectors. Those have O-rings to seal them - you could get new ones for cheap and I would recommend it. Those need to be lubricated before going into the new manifold.

The fuel line tool slips into the circular fitting where the lines meet the manifold at the rear of the pass. head. They slip over the line, and you push them into the fitting while pulling it apart. Be prepared with a rag for the gas leaking out.

There's a few more tips I can give:

Don't remove everything from the intake while it's in the car. Disconnect the fuel lines, wiring to the injectors, the air intake tube, EGR tube and what ever else is holding it to the engine (plus the 10 or so bolts). Then, swap the old parts (fuel rails, injectors, upper intake, etc.) to the new intake on a workbench. Much easier that way.

I would spray the EGR tube nut with penetrant now and let it soak. Sometimes that can be a pain.

Also - you will need to drain the cooling system. Be sure to get more a/f for that.

Reason I asked about the Navy - my brother-in-law is sometimes stationed in Norfolk on the USS Montpelier submarine.


Any more ?'s are welcome.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 11:20 AM
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My hose was leaking too. I did not ask to see the one he removed, as I trust the Technician that serviced it at the Ford Dealership.

They said that the intake had to be removed to change the entire "hose".

However, I have read posts here that say you do not have to remove the intake.

Either way, it COULD BE the "hose" that is leaking, and not the intake.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolling-Thunder
My hose was leaking too. I did not ask to see the one he removed, as I trust the Technician that serviced it at the Ford Dealership.

They said that the intake had to be removed to change the entire "hose".

However, I have read posts here that say you do not have to remove the intake.

Either way, it COULD BE the "hose" that is leaking, and not the intake.
I've been there and tried to, but I see no way it's possible to swap the hose with the intake on... I tried on a 94-5 style aluminum intake, im sure the plastic one is probably the same hassle.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-12-2003, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Embalmer


There is nothing that runs under the intake in the valley except the 3 inches of hose going backward from the water pump then into the hardline which twists around behind the passenger side head. When I said I doubted the hose was leaking - I meant this hard line which is metal. The 3 inches of heater hose from the back of the water pump to the hardline may well be leaking. For your sake I hope that's all it is.

My guess is the manifold is leaking from the crossover right behind the alternator, then dripping down into the "V" which is why it looks wet down there. Even if you end up replacing the intake, you won't need a throttle body gasket because you just remove the upper intake "4.6L OHC" and the TB as a unit. No need to seperate them. You don't need tape for the injectors. Those have O-rings to seal them - you could get new ones for cheap and I would recommend it. Those need to be lubricated before going into the new manifold.

The fuel line tool slips into the circular fitting where the lines meet the manifold at the rear of the pass. head. They slip over the line, and you push them into the fitting while pulling it apart. Be prepared with a rag for the gas leaking out.

There's a few more tips I can give:

Don't remove everything from the intake while it's in the car. Disconnect the fuel lines, wiring to the injectors, the air intake tube, EGR tube and what ever else is holding it to the engine (plus the 10 or so bolts). Then, swap the old parts (fuel rails, injectors, upper intake, etc.) to the new intake on a workbench. Much easier that way.

I would spray the EGR tube nut with penetrant now and let it soak. Sometimes that can be a pain.

Also - you will need to drain the cooling system. Be sure to get more a/f for that.

Reason I asked about the Navy - my brother-in-law is sometimes stationed in Norfolk on the USS Montpelier submarine.


Any more ?'s are welcome.
Thanks for all of the help and advise Jim. Like I said, I've never been in the Navy but I do work for a civilian contractor so I'm on the base several times a week and soon it may well be every day on the base.

Warped (not twisted!)

"Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent." - Richard Rahl


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin
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