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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Wont go over 100

Hi guys, today i take my car on the freeway to see how fast it went . Now the card wont go over 100. Is that an engine problem or trasmission
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:40 AM
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probably both.....
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 03:40 AM
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well, you don't have any mods posted (if any are done), but if you're still stock, the car won't go any higher because of the stock speed limiter. it is there for a good reason, the stock driveshaft can't **reliably** handle the higher RPM's that going faster would create, it would start to balloon, and eventually fail, possibly causing you to do a pole vault at 100+ MPH (not a good thing). a chip can be programmed to remove the speed limiter, but it is not recommended unless you upgrade to a better driveshaft.

read here, chapter 17 "Driveline Critical Speed" for specific info:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny...on/index.shtml

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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 08:27 AM
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welcome...im from michigan to, near detroit, that limitor is actually a safety thing, my 96 will only hit 105, and then just limits it..... its because the cheap a$$ driveshaft that ford put in our cars
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:31 AM
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Maybe it's because I'm getting older and I have a daughter now but WTF do you need to be doing 100 + on a public road for

I realize we have all done stupid things but save that SH!T for the track before you kill yourself and take some other inocent people out with you.

It's Ghey

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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:45 AM
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Ok, Im not going to be racing on the streets @ 100+ mph but I have some questions

I currently do have a 99 motor, with alot of bolt-ons, and when I get my heads I will Have some headwork done. My guess would be around 220rwhp

Heres my question:
Im keeping my 3:27's just for the gas mileage, should i replace the Drive shaft? And should i buy it new or will a used one work just as good if I have it balanced? Thanks in advance


Tom

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by timb
Maybe it's because I'm getting older and I have a daughter now but WTF do you need to be doing 100 + on a public road for

I realize we have all done stupid things but save that SH!T for the track before you kill yourself and take some other inocent people out with you.

It's Ghey
I agree...

The speed limiter is in there for 2 good reasons.. maybe three... our cars are horribly "under-braked" and weigh close to 4000 pounds...

We are getting old, and responsible too... scary ain't it...

-mike

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:49 AM
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I personally don't see the need to change the shaft if you aren't going to be bouncing in 3 digits. I have an 02 Explorer motor and SVO blower with 3.27 gears and my origional shaft. I don't notice any vibrations

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 11:21 AM
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sweet thanks for the fast reply Timb. Since I have invested all this money into my car. It's going to be driven responsibly.

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 11:28 AM
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Its not just the drive shaft that is a concern....


Torque converter balooning

Tires

Suspension

brakes


are all a factor in going fast. Thats why the speed limiter not just the drive shaft. You have to remeber that your car isnt brand new and the suspension components can be worn out. Also Tires need to be currectly speed rated and what about road debree. If you have a stock TQ converter it tends to baloon at (about) 5500 rpms
also how about stopping a 4000 pound car doping 100 miles an hour... upgrades on the brakes shouold be considered before attempting such a feet..



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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 11:42 AM
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uh i hate to post this but when i was coming back from canada with the 92 tbird there was points i had the criuse set at better than 100mph but now there was noone around at all. i usually cruise anywhere from 65-85 on the highway anyhow.

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 04:57 PM
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95ThundaChik'n,

You said...

"The stock driveshaft can't **reliably** handle the higher RPM's that going faster would create, it would start to balloon".

Yes and no...

There are a few reasons why Ford set the speed limiter at 105 mph on the 4.6L
T-Birds and Cougars. The first reason is...215/70-15 stock Firestone tires are not rated for high speeds. Second reason is, driveline critical speed. Where the driveshaft starts to bend and can possibly take out the rear bushing in the 4R70W automatic. The driveshaft won't balloon, you're thinking of the torque converter. The stock driveshaft is steel and it's crimped to the proper length, not great for sustained high speeds. Even notice what is under the driveshaft on the MN12 cars? Yes, the gas tank. I doubt the rear loop (weak) would save your butt if the driveshaft dropped at high speeds. I don't think you'd drop a shaft from a few triple digit blasts though.

The 12" torque converter is rated for 5,400 rpm, then is starts to balloon or grow on its axis of spin. There is a possibility that it can wipe out the trust washer and that would be BAD. Still this really doesn't pertain to the occassional 130 mph blast some wish to participate in.

The bottom line is, to get around the 105 mph limiter, you need a chip. I recommend SCT for those needs. Then you'll need speed rated tires and at least consider an 11.25" torque converter and MMC driveshaft to be safe. Finally, remember 105 is not legal on public roads.

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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by A-Train
The 12" torque converter is rated for 5,400 rpm, then is starts to balloon or grow on its axis of spin. There is a possibility that it can wipe out the trust washer and that would be BAD.

A-Train
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 08:16 PM
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96 GoldBird,

Ouch...scattered it nicely. See and they think we make this stuff up.

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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 08:41 PM
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And while the TC was beating up the thrust bearing on that side, the crank was "machining" the oil pump on the other:



My oil pressure guage was jumping all over the place from zero to full pressure. I just figured it was the sending unit "as usual." Man was I wrong...


It's a miracle I didn't scatter my engine parts and oil all over the track in Commerce at SSHS 3 last year.... I actually ran my fastest times...

I wonder what I woulda run with an intact thrust bearing, constant oil pressure and a TC that wasn't slipping its way through 2nd and 3rd (and not beating the hell out of the crankshaft).. Oh well, I'll never know now...

If I hadn't dropped the car off at Scott's for an Info-Center and flown home from ATL, I'da blown up on I-75 southbound for sure... I woulda come home "on the hook" from Gainesville...

Someone was watching over me...

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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 94cougar4.6
Hi guys, today i take my car on the freeway to see how fast it went . Now the card wont go over 100. Is that an engine problem or trasmission
Well one of the two got to blow up first. Then you'll know which one it is. 100 + MPH is the limit with these stock T-Birds. Now, how do you go faster? The guys that go to the track, cross the 1/4 mile at 89 -93 mph, depending on mods. That is about 15.5 down to 14.5 secs. This is with bolt ons. On the track it's 1 sec, but on the street it's the difference of night and day. What you need on the street is quick acceleration. Forget about mph. Acceleration is where the fun is. That means upgrading parts that are worn out. Pictures at 11. Ed
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hollywood Ed
The guys that go to the track, cross the 1/4 mile at 89 -93 mph, depending on mods.
I'm not sure where you get your information. I couldn't find one on my faster times, but here's one of the slower ones.




As you can see I crossed the line at over 93 mph, and I'm by no means the fastest N/A car on this site....

Quote:
What you need on the street is quick acceleration.
I'm not sure what your point is here, but without "quick acceleration" I would not have turned 98mph in a quarter mile on the track...

-mike

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Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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My car didnt have a speed limiter on it before i put my new engine in. Before that my car did the whole 120 but now with the new engine (and this one seems faster) the car only does 100. Plus withe the old one my O/D light was on then when i did the engine exchange it was not flashing anymore. Im not sure!

And also it not like i just get up in the morning and say "Well Hey Let Me Do 100 Down My Street" , I put a new engine in and i wanted to see who good it was. Plus that was on the freeway any way and the speed limit on the freeway i take is 75mph so why take it to an extra 25 to open it up?
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:02 PM
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Unhappy

Nice pictures of broken parts. These people have obviously experenced 100 MPH parts failure. Search "Drive Shaft Poll". Only one person had a catastrophic driveshaft failure. Why the continious "doom and gloom" on our Drive Shafts?

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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:10 PM
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All we can do is state the facts we can't educate the willingly ignorant

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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigiron383
Nice pictures of broken parts. These people have obviously experenced 100 MPH parts failure. Search "Drive Shaft Poll". Only one person had a catastrophic driveshaft failure. Why the continious "doom and gloom" on our Drive Shafts?
Only one??? That's one reported on our site in that poll then... Do you know how many there have been altogether, nationwide??? Actually there only has to be one that I care about if it's mine.

The reason for the 'doom and gloom' on our driveshafts has to do with physics and economics. They are 15' long and are made as inexpensively as Ford could make them. Due to the material, the length and the way they are made, after a certain rotational speed, they flex like a bow does when you draw the string. When they flex, the ends come closer together (like a bow) effectively shortening the length so that they are no longer connected to the drivetrain properly... and subjec the drivetrain to failure.. and long before the driveshaft actually fails it causes terrible vibration... do a search for "vibration" or "driveshaft vibration" and see what you find.

It's not necessarily a matter of "how often has a driveshaft actually failed," but a fact of physics that it CAN happen...

Personally I do not want to be the one to have my car pole vault over itself at 100mph, so I'll keep my MMX driveshaft (and loop), thank you very much...

-mike

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BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:23 PM
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Question

What "Facts"? All I've seen are opinions.

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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:29 PM
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Here read this. This writeup was done by one of the Ford powertain engineers who worked on our platform.

http://forums.modulardepot.com/showt...&threadid=5443

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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:34 PM
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Unhappy

I've have read that on other posts. It seems most of what is stated is true of all cars. That being the case why don't we see more catastrophic failures in all areas? Why do WE enamor the MN/12 so?

In my opinion this is just a case of "The sky is falling".

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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:42 PM
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OK Troll that is your opinion but I would prefer to trust the educated opinion of a Ford powertrain engineer who has to be concerned with physics and liability for Ford.

Nuff said

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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:49 PM
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TROLL??? Why weren't they all recaled then?

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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigiron383
In my opinion
Nuff said.

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigiron383
I've have read that on other posts. It seems most of what is stated is true of all cars. That being the case why don't we see more catastrophic failures in all areas? Why do WE enamor the MN/12 so?

In my opinion this is just a case of "The sky is falling".


Ok.

They weren't all recalled because Ford put a 105 mph governor on our vehicles. With 3.08 or even 3.27 gears you generally aren't going to run into many problems below that speed.

This post by Mike really says it all:

"Only one??? That's one reported on our site in that poll then... Do you know how many there have been altogether, nationwide??? Actually there only has to be one that I care about if it's mine.

The reason for the 'doom and gloom' on our driveshafts has to do with physics and economics. They are 15' long and are made as inexpensively as Ford could make them. Due to the material, the length and the way they are made, after a certain rotational speed, they flex like a bow does when you draw the string. When they flex, the ends come closer together (like a bow) effectively shortening the length so that they are no longer connected to the drivetrain properly... and subjec the drivetrain to failure.. and long before the driveshaft actually fails it causes terrible vibration... do a search for "vibration" or "driveshaft vibration" and see what you find.

It's not necessarily a matter of "how often has a driveshaft actually failed," but a fact of physics that it CAN happen...

Personally I do not want to be the one to have my car pole vault over itself at 100mph, so I'll keep my MMX driveshaft (and loop), thank you very much...

-mike"

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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigiron383
TROLL??? Why weren't they all recaled then?
They put speed limiters on them instead... As was explained in the previous posts... Duh!!!!

Ford knew they would flex and be a problem over a certain speed ahead of time, it was not something they figured out afterwards... drivetrian engineers such as the one who posted the explanation warned them, so, rather than manufacture a driveshaft the way the engineers recommended to withstand the forces, they put a speed limiter in the computer to keep it from happening... it was much cheaper, and if you mess with the program in the computer, Ford is no longer liable for the failure...

-mike

96 GoldBird

'96 T-Bird LX 4.6L Alive & well & living in S. Florida

N/A:
Renegade NPI heads/Comp Cams; OEM intake manifold; Bolt-ons
245 rwhp; 13.713 @ 99.35 (Commerce, GA - November 2003)


BLOWN: Renegade NPI heads; Renegade shortblock; Intercooled T-Trim; some other stuff
Pump Gas Numbers - 547 rwhp / 525 ft.lbs; Best Time - 11.388 @ 118.68 (Commerce, GA - November 2007)
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2004, 03:17 PM
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here's a question for you guys....

as you can see from my sig i've got gears and now have chip soon to be installed. i was at the junkyard the other day and there was a 96 Mk VIII. i was under the impresion that the marks got AL driveshafts. would it be worth my time and effort to grab the drive shaft from it?

Matt
RIP Thunderchicken...

moved on to a lighter chassis with a 5 speed and cheaper parts. i know, i sold out.
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